Young People Must Think About Death

I’m kinda enjoying and learning from this series. =)

* Has your life been marked by foolish confidence or needless fear?

Yes. So much (that’s if the fear you’re talking about is not death)! I happened to fear our church conductor so much when he makes us sing our parts in solo. It made me breakdown and cry so much. The last cry was a year ago. This year I’m braver in choir–though I choke at times when I’m asked to sing solo in practices. It’s really a needless fear because no one in the choirs hopes I would go off-key, it’s only me who keeps on thinking, “Oh, I’ll sing off-key.” I think it now kinda preposterous!

* What does it look like to live as if life is a vapor?

We must grab every opportunity–I mean make most of our life because a second can’t even be retrieved, how much more the hours of our lives spent in nothing? Since life is just a vapor, ought not we treasure and live it to the fullest?

* What does it look like to live unafraid of death?

It’s a life of peace–not the peace the world means but the peace we can find in Christ Jesus. To trust Him is not to be afraid of death. He has conquered death, so what have we to fear?

* Bonus: What is the difference between foolhardiness and fearlessness?

Foolhardiness is like being so brave without thinking. In short, it’s being rash. The results of a foolhardiness more often than not is stupid. Fearlessness on the other hand is the opposite of foolhardiness. You have fear but it’s under control. You don’t let fear take over your feelings. Fear governed by the mind results to fearlessness.

dear Alex and Brett I just started reading do hard things and am ccompletely loving it and it is truly a great testimony to what a person can do if they decide to do the things they believe that they can’t. But one thing bothered me. In the chapter the myth of adolescence: when yall were writing about the work laws for children. I don’t know if yall are as conservative as I am but I believe the God given job of the governent is to punish evil doers domestic and foreign. These laws put the government once again out of its God given authority as well as breaching the constitution. I look forward to reading more of your book, Campbell Sproul 12 but soon a “teenager”

Dear Alex and Brett:

Thanks for the great post! Even as uncomfortable as it may be, we young people do need to think about death every so often, because it will change your way of living. We do not know when God might call us home, therefore we are in the race of our lives to “Do Hard Things” and accomplish things for God’s Kingdom. Part of me is scared about death, but on the other hand I can’t wait to be in heaven and experienced God’s awesome glory!

Has your life been marked by foolish confidence or needless fear? For a while, I did have a struggle with fear, but God has graciously allowed me to overcome it.

What does it look like to live as if life is a vapor? I think it would look wonderful. We Christians would be doing all we could for the Lord and not worry about if others will think we’re strange.
That is what life is, and we should always be like that. 🙂

What does it look like to live unafraid of death? Similar to the above question, being unafraid of death wouldn’t mean we take foolish risks but instead don’t spend time worrying over our lives.

Bonus: What is the difference between foolhardiness and fearlessness? Foolhardiness is taking foolish risks like stepping in front of a truck and saying, “I’ll survive if God wants me to.” Fearlessness is not being afraid to risk our lives for the Gospel because God’s in control.

Thanks a lot, guys!

I do admit that I have many times feared death needlessly….I really need to learn to trust God. When I die, it will be only because the Lord ordained it. Your post helped a lot. I’m praying for you.

God bless you richly

#1 I have never been afraid of death, but the types of death and pain experienced before death. Often, it has kept me from doing things that are risky but not fool-hardy. After all, life is a risk because to live, you must die.
#2 To look at life as a vapor is not to dispair when things go wrong. Bad things will happen, but often they do not affect your after-life in heaven which is real priority.
#3 It must look like a person who takes every chance to talk about thier faith, and real faith, not just pretend. Faith like a child who believes they can do anything through Christ who strengthens me.
#4 Fearlessness is to do things that are fun, yet high on risks, things that further the kingdom of God no matter the chance of death. Foolhardiness is to do things that are dangerous, not to prove a point, but to get attention or have a high. I always try to be fearless by “living”, not just being “alive”. Living is being glad just because you can breathe and experience all the beauty of God in nature, his word, and prayer. Being “alive” is just breathing and heart pumping and eating because it keeps your vital signs working.

I’m glad y’all have started a conversation on this, it’s a topic that we all need to think about, and that I need to hear.
1. My problem tends to be needless fear.
2. Mama tells us constantly to “live today as if it was your last” and that is a really good mindset to have when thinking about how short life really is.
3. I think Lauren B. hit the nail on the head for this one. My dad has told us the same thing.

Thank you so much for starting this series! It is an echo of what I’ve felt for a long time. Death is unavoidable, and really isn’t that bad if you’re saved.
But people freak out anytime I mention it. For example, when someone invites me to something, I often say that I’ll come ‘Lord willing’ (or Deo Volente if I have time to explain what that means). Usually people then ask if I have something planned or if there’s a specific reason I wouldn’t be able to make it. To which I usually shrug and say “no”, or “not that I know of”, and at times “well I’m not guaranteed to be here.” At that point everyone either thinks I have cancer or something, but when I assure them that I don’t, and that I’m just comfortable with the fact that I could drop dead in the next five minutes, they usually think I’m extremely morbid and ask me to stop talking about it.

1. Foolish confidence–not really; needless fear–definitely! I worry about the stupidest things sometimes and I often have to tell myself to just let it go.

2. One of my favorite songs is from Echoing Angels and it goes “Let go, live for the moment / Reach out, that’s how you show it / Live because you can be an answered prayer tonight.” In other words, do as much as you can for God today because you might not have tomorrow in which to do it. Don’t worry about how you’ll sound or look–just do it! You could be an answered prayer.

3. Good question…well, I think that because we know where we’re going when we die, we should be willing to put ourselves in danger to protect non-Christians who would go to hell if they died. Like the Jewish Christian who barricaded the classroom door with his body during the Virginia Tech shootings a year or two ago.

4. Well, I looked them both up on dictionary.com, and I found it very interesting that they both had pretty much the same definition except for one thing. The definition of foolhardy included words like “rash,” “foolish,” and “reckless,” while the definition of fearless did not contain any of those words. I agree with Lauren B.

many people know in their heads “I don’t need to fear death because Jesus Christ is my savior and I’m going to heaven” but what a large difference about 12 inches can make- between your head and your heart! it’s often hard for me to put into practice what I believe. To truly trust my Heavenly Father and His perfect best and will for my life. Matthew 6:24-34 has been a great encouragement to me in this area: “Take no thought to your life…”
thank y’all so much for your encouragement! 🙂

I’m somewhat cautious, but wouldn’t say I have a problem with either needless fear or foolish confidence. Living life as if it were a vapor, reminds me of the children’s prayer “and if I die before I wake I pray the Lord my soul to take” Amen! Otherwise I would say it means that you never procrastinate about the important things. life every minute as if it is your last and savor every breath the Father gives you. What does it look like to live unafraid of death? Read “Through the Gates of Splendor.” foolhardiness is being reckless and rash, fearlessness is more like not having any worries because it is all in God’s hands.
God Bless,
Tiffany

wow. reading this new series is kinda unreal. in October, a girl who was very close to very many people in my school was taken in a car accident. for half a day, no one went to class, i missed lunch that day, and most people went home. we lost a sister. but now i read this, and it’s unreal how i think now, it could have been me, it could have me and my brother and mother taken on that day instead. i could’ve been the one called home. It’s strange because not even half a year before the day that girl died, my best friend was taken one night as well. and my father taken, thirteen years before that.
but, i’m just rambling. your new series is great Alex and Brett. Keep on keepin’ on!

~Amber Lynn

Q : Has your life been marked by foolish confidence or needless fear?
A : Honestly, too much. But I can’t even put all that fears away.

Q : What does it look like to live as if life is a vapor?
A : It vanished so quickly, and we got to do what we got to do. p.s. this question sounds one type with ‘what would you do if God tell you you’re gonna die tomorrow?’

Q : What does it look like to live unafraid of death?
A : Well, no fear of heights, I’m sure. And maybe there’s some negative effects there. People will do crazy things all around the world. There’s a chance that they may leave God for life on earth! Oh but I’m sure if teenagers like us already know about the purpose of life is God, we would be the army that will try to change the world ^^

AAHHH! I was going to type the lyrics to “In Christ Alone,” until I actually READ your whole post! There is so much truth in that verse: “Till He returns or calls me home, here in the pow’r of Christ I LIVE.”
Because Christ paid the price for our sin, we can live without fearing death.

Kelsey, your comment was really thought provoking. As a believer, doubt is a powerful tool Satan uses to pull me away from my Savior. So many times, thoughts have popped into my mind such as “Is God real?” and “Why do I need him?”
But not only is there evidence for the existence of God (such as the fossil record, golden spiral, etc. Please visit http://www.irc.org for more information!), but we humans are natural worshippers. Everyone worships something, whether it’s God, themselves, money, another person, or an object.
We also have a BIG problem: sin. When I was dead in sin, Christ died. He paid the ultimate price on my behalf because of His infinite grace, mercy, and love. And I did absolutely nothing to deserve His favor. My short life on Earth is merely an entrance point to eternal life and my days are lived for His glory. I would much rather dwell on this promise of eternal life than live my days “contemplating an impending doom.”

Sorry if I sounded at all preachy; I just wanted to state my beliefs.

I’ll now close my little “sermon” with this verse from “It is Well with My Soul”:
“My sin, oh the bliss of this glorious thought! My sin, not in part, but the whole, is nailed to the cross and I bear it no more, praise the Lord, praise the Lord, oh my soul!”

We here in the Koller household took some time to remember young Micheal Billings, he was an remarkable young man and we miss him very much. He was and still is a great example of a young person living for the Lord and not fearing man or death. He was an still is a great example to us all on how we should live our life for the Lord.

I will not go without mentioning that you too are setting a good example as well. You keep up your work (and you studies) and continue to run the race. God Bless you both and we all here will be reading your series in hopes to learn something.

God Bless!

“Men have been helped to live by remembering that they must die.” (Charles Spurgeon)

This is a great post guys! It’s so true that we can not be afraid of death, because as Christians we wont truly start living until we die. I love C.S. Lewis’ example of it in The Last Battle. “All their life in this world and all their adventures in Narnia had only been the cover and the title page: now at last they were beginning Chapter One of the Great Story which no one of earth has read: which goes on forever: in which every chapter is better than the one before.”
I also love the quote from John Bunyan on death: ““I saw myself within the arms of grace and mercy; and though I was before afraid of a dying hour, yet, now I cried, ‘Let me die’; now death was lovely and beautiful in my sight, for I saw we shall never live indeed until we be gone to the other world… God himself is the portion of the saints.”

I wrote a post on my blog about the joys of heaven and having no fear in death. (http://nobody416.wordpress.com/2008/09/18/heaven-no-fear-of-death/) But now in answer to the questions…

1. Sometimes it has. I think we have all had times when we have acted too confident or too fearful. It’s a balance to learn how cautious and how confident we need to be. We need to take risks for the rights things. Not taking foolish risks, but take risks for things that matter to Christ instead of things that have no eternal significance.

2. Living life as a vapor is not taking anything for granted but using every single moment to serve God and make an impact of the world around us. Everything we have been given has been given to us by God and he can take it all away in a moment. We need to live like we are dying, because in essence we are all dying. This is a saying I have, “Live everyday like it’s your last, with meaning and purpose and joy.” To live like life is a vapor is to live like it’s our very last day on earth.

3. When I think of people that are unafraid of death I think of all the Christians in the persecuted church that are holding to Christ even with the threat of death always close to them. They are willing to do anything to glorify their Savior and they view death as finally being gone from this world and being with Christ. To not fear death is to be willing to take risks for the sake of the gospel and other things that have importance. It is boldness and courage and an amount of supernatural strength. When we have our hope in Christ we know that life on this earth isn’t as glorious as life with Him. Heaven will be far past all that we can dream or long for.

Soli Deo Gloria
~Olivia~

Thanks, Alex and Brett, great series,
In our small corner of the nation a group of close-knit friends has recently lost our favorite member. One month ago, fourteen year old Sam joined the Lord, after a car accident early one morning. I was going to send you her story earlier, but now I see that this is the time.
Though we miss our sister, and cherish her spirit more now than ever, we rejoice that she is now facing God. Never have I seen God glorified so much in a death. Her prayers were constantly: “I want to know You better.” Well, God has now answered her prayer in full, and we couldn’t be happier for her.
Many prayer journals have been found, one in particular had only a drawing(she was a fantastic artist) and a single entry, penned the night before the accident, this is the prayer:
“Dear Heavenly Father,
Lord, i thank you for sending your Son to die for all of my sins.
I ask Lord, that you please be with them. Please take care of them and show them the way, because i’m more than sure that they’re just a bit lost. Please help them see what they can become, and what they can do.
I pray for the bible study, they’ve decided to continue it, but i’m not sure if thats such a good idea. It seems to me that its run its course, and needs to call itself what it is, which is a fellowship.
I pray for America. Please, please, do whats best for us. Don’t let Obama get into office. I don’t think he has a clue. Please do whats best for us, and help me to accept it, whatever it may be.
Lord, I also pray for myself. I’m having trouble dedicating myself to studying your Word. Please give me that extra push of motivation-to really get into your word. Lord i ask that you will help me get through this next year and a half. the freedom calls to me. its taunting me. well, maybe not quite that dramatic, but i do crave to be on the same level as my friends. this is a life-long test, i know. please help me to pass, and mature. I really want to be spiritually, as well as humanly mature. please help me acheive this.
in Jesus’ name,
amen”
Oh that more young people would live with the passion and humility and abandon that Sam did! Her fourteen years counted for much more than many long and wasted lives! Words are empty if you do not live your faith while God has placed you on this earth.
So, who is “them” that she refers to at the beginning of this prayer? Her mother asks that you search your own heart for the answer to that. Speaking at her funeral, a dear friend of Sam’s said to the crowd numbering more that 1,000:”Sam lived her life full because she lived for Christ. She knew where she was going. but the question is this: How much time do you think you have left?”
You cannot have hope if you do not know Christ. It is black and white. I earnestly hope that each and every one of you reading this would be sure of your salvation. And live, not enslaved by death, but above it. Because Jesus Christ is everything. Sam desired to be more mature, like her older friends, little did she know that we would one day be left amazed at the beautiful heart unveiled by the grace of God. He is revealing to us the humility of His servants heart. Sam’s favorite verse was Phillipians 1:20-21. And we continue to pray that her story will touch more and more lives. I haven’t shared this to garner comments or sympathy but to honor my sweet friends memory, may you take it into your heart and may God teach you what He desires through it.
Solo Deo Gloria,
Bethany

Hey Guys
I’m really loving the series. About a year ago we had to go on lock-down at school. I was in the gym, and we had no idea what was going on, all we knew that this time it wasn’t a drill. It ended up that there was someone in the building, but they got in under control. This post reminded me of that. I knew that, no matter what happened, I would be okay. I didn’t have to fear the unknown because I knew if I did die I would enter through the gates of Heaven. Thanks for sharing ya’lls heart with us, I always love reading the blog

Hi Guys!
I read about Michael Billings several months ago because of his sister Jamie’s testimony. It was a sweet and powerful message emphasizing the importance of a sister’s role in her brother’s life. It made me stop and reconsider my relationship with my brother- how am i influencing him?
Read Jamie’s testimony at http://www.visionarydaughters.com under archives “November 2007”

I just thought of a rhyme

Don’t waste your life,
Do hard things for Christ.

A little bit of J.P. and Harris mixed together.

im so incredibly glad that you guys brought this up. it really made me wonder what would happen if my friends died. sure im saved but what about them? i told some of my friends to come check out this blog entry and my friend Nick did. it reall made him wonder whether just being a good kid and being a catholic/christian would keep him safe. we had a really long and intenxe discussion about it and at the end he ended up giving his life to God. im so glad God used you guys to help me save a life. Thanks

Awesome blog guys. I totally agree and I love the idea of living today with all that you can get out of it!

Kelsey: I second Brett, You’ve definitely done some serious research! Congratulations for your persistence.
I admire your dedication to surety in your beliefs. However, when looking at your reading list (which is impressive) I’m inclined to believe (although I could be biased; ) that your lists are a trifle unbalanced in favor of the atheistic point of view. I have some books I’ve found helpful in my studies of christianity as compared to atheism and evolution, I’d be happy to recommend them if you are interested. Otherwise, keep up the good search!
Oh, Thanks for your comments they’re well thought out and very thought provoking.

Amen
Last year one of the families in our church lost their only daughter in single-car accident. She was 17, and yet the mother and father showed great faith, I only saw the father cry once. He was constantly telling our youth group that he had no doubt that his daughter was with Christ. Some kids who went to the same high school as she did wanted to come give their respects to her family, but their parents wouldn’t let them because they said the daughter’s parents were not handling her death correctly. The world expected them to grieve and sorrow for weeks. Yet, they showed that death has no sting. At the funeral the father gave a short speech before the eulogy. Although he was close to tears he did not break down, and reflected God’s glory by preaching of Jesus’ defeat over death. He later told me personally that his daughter’s death was for God’s glory and that others might come to Christ through her death. I truly believe that because there isn’t a day that goes by without them thinking of their daughter and yet God’s strength is so visible in them.

Grace C: Thanks very much! :)You are correct that I have been probably been reading more skeptical books than Christian books lately. I suppose it is due in part to the fact that I have found most Christian apologetics lacking, whereas I identify more with atheists, agnostics, and deists. I also started out my “quest for truth” with a Reformed Christian worldview (limited atonement, salvation by grace, Bible as God’s Word, etc.) If you have read Wayne Grudem, that was pretty much my theology. I was already quite familiar with Christianity, having read a bit of theology (although not nearly as much as I would like to).

What are some books (on both sides) that you have read?What Christian books would you recommend/did you find helpful? I am indeed very interested and will read what you suggest if I can locate copies of the books. If God exists, I definitely want to know Him! Thanks and have a great day! 🙂

Kelsey,
Try Finney’s Systematic Theology by Charles Finney. It is very thorough, being written by an attorney. I hope this helps.

Hey, I am in the process of reading your guy’s book, and it has brought up many good discussions in my family. On the subject of death I can really relate, I should have died more times then I wish to count, and I am only fifteen. I have also been to two relative’s funnerals (that I was close with) and talked with people about their wishes once they die. The way that I have handled it all is by simply saying that If God is all powerful, all knowing, and everywhere all at once, then I will die when he wishes for me to die. And a half joke half serious line that I often use, “It is not wise to argue with an omnicient, omnipotent being. . . . because no matter how good you are, you will always lose.”
So yeah, just my imput. (P.S. I might not come back so if you want to talk, you will have e-mail.)

Dear: Kelsey

After reading your post my heart went out to your situation and so I wanted to help you. I (Oshea Davis) myself am a Christian author and writer myself, and although I am not an expert in apologetics I have studied it deeply and want to help

First I would highly recommend an author Vincent Cheung at (www.vincentcheung.com) and his book “Ultimate Questions.”

First I would like to address your position as a agnostic, which is nothing more than skepticism. I address is only because you seem to value rationalism, logic and being intelligent, therefore I want you show you why skepticism is the farthest thing away from intelligent to move you from it.

Because all non-Christian worldviews are without any ultimate justification, there is really nothing to prevent them from collapsing into total skepticism, but one cannot remain a skeptic becauseskepticism self-destructs – it is self-contradictory to affirm that we “know” that we cannot know. Only Christianity rescues the intellect from complete skepticism; therefore, rather than depending on a non-Christian foundation to construct a case for the biblical worldview, the Christian adopts the revelational epistemology of biblical infallibility.

Kelsey you said this: “An agnostic simply does not know whether or not God exists.” But this is self-contradictory. You claim that you can be justified by saying you “know” that you don’t know.

I would encourage you to run from such thinking in to the arms of Jesus, Who has provided the world with the only intelligent foundation for the mind to rest. Jesus Christ even rescues the mind and through the bible and gives us a true epistemology that can be proven to be both self-justified and that covers truths for all of life.

Secondly, about the existence of God:

“Non-Christian epistemology is fatally flawed in the first place; they must justify their epistemology before saying that God is hidden to them. Some of them may claim that they will come to believe in God if they see him as a great ball of light. But since the God that we affirm is invisible, he is not a ball of light. Therefore, if he manifests a ball of light in front of an individual, he is not in fact revealing his own person to him, but only doing something for him to see. That is, if the unbeliever holds a false epistemology, then any evidence that will satisfy him will not be evidence that reveals the truth.

If the individual nevertheless accepts this as evidence, then he has made an irrational leap of logic from the ball of light to the existence of God. And does this “evidence” compel him to conclude that the Christian God exists? Similar problems exist with “evidences” such as miracles or apparitions. The problem is that empiricism itself cannot justify any belief, regardless of what it admits as evidence. And since no necessarily implication follows from observation, one who relies on empiricism can always avoid the conclusion he dislikes. But then the person is to blame, and not the evidence.” Vincent Cheung

Kelsey, The world empirical means you rely on proving things by means of observation or experiment. This is where we get the word empiricism: meaning you believe that only by the use of the senses, through which you observe, can you discover knowledge.

An Epistemology that is based on observation as its lowest and most fundament point of proof, can therefore, only prove their observation with more observations. But the question is how do we know, as absolute fact, these other observations are infallible? Well, it would be by more observation. And so on, so that I would have to use more observation to prove the other observations. Yet, how do I really know these observations are absolute fact, more observations? This is why this epistemology is a circular argument that is not capable of finding and knowing absolute or infallible provable fact! How do you prove the senses are in fact able to know truth? By the use of more senses? But how do we know these other senses are absolutely reliable, by more senses? The Christian, or biblical worldview’s epistemology is not based on this foolish and flimsy foundation.

Scripture is necessarily true in itself, like how the law of noncontradiction is necessarily true. For example, you need to assume the law of noncontradiction to deny it or argue against it. The fact that the bible is necessarily true is the main reason why the bible is not a circular first principle, separating itself from almost all other worldviews. Then when you add to this truth that the bible has enough universal propositions for all of life, and therefore, true rationalism or deduction is used without induction then the bible becomes different from all other worldviews because is proves itself to be true and all others false.

being necessarily true means in essence that something is “self-justified.” When something is self-justified you do not need something else to justify or add more proof to support it, it is already self-supported and self-proved, if you would. This is why the bible is a true epistemology that needs nothing else to support it. Unlike observations that need more observations and the senses that need more senses to back them up (being circular), the bible needs nothing to support it. The bible proves itself by the fact that one must affirm the bible’s presuppositions as they try to deny it. Now unlike the law of noncontradiction the Scriptures show that it is necessarily true by its contents. In other words you must assume the universal truths within scripture to even deny it.

See if scientists admit the laws of nature are not constant, then they vividly show they cannot prove anything; since science is built on the fact you must observe and then test over and over too find something reliable. But if the laws of nature are not reliable then none of their experiments are reliable ether (which is what they really are anyway). But, by their own worldview, unless they can observe and test the laws of nature for all times, then they cannot “prove” they are constant by their own worldview. But the bible does in fact say the laws of nature are constant. Therefore, if scientist rely on the constancy and reliability of nature’s laws to produce tests that say the bible is not true, then they self defeat themselves for they are affirming the bible to deny it!

Atheism and Mormonism have no basis from which to declare murder as morally reprehensible. On their presuppositions, they cannot even make the word wrong universally applicable. They cannot authoritatively define murder, nor can they authoritatively enforce any rules against the practice.

“Murder is wrong” finds rational justification only within the Christian worldview.

Although many non-Christians also think that murder is wrong, if their non-Christian worldviews cannot lead to the conclusion that murder is wrong, and if only Christianity can produce such a conclusion, it can only mean that these non-Christians have presupposed Christianity in arriving at their conclusion.

Kelsey, I hope this has been helpful and loving to you. You had very partilcular and hard question and I tried to answer them as best I can with what little time I had.

“Our lord Jesus Christ is a Complete Savior.” He cancels our sin as He died in our place, He heals the brokenness and Yes, even rescues the mind from illogical nonsense.

The bible is (1) necessarily true and, therefore, our (2) epistemology is Divine Revelation, and our method is (3) rationalism or deduction. The biblical worldview is the only worldview that satisfies these demands for a true(1) first principle that is both (a)self-justifying and (b)encompasses universal truths for all of life and (2) use a true method that is not inductive and nonsense but rational and that is true logic. It is not by mistake that the biblical worldview in the realm of logic and philosophy is undefeatable, s

Sincerely: Oshea Davis (www.osheadavis.com) (http://www.osheadavis.com/content/view/119/31/)

Kelsey,

If I were you, I would be extremely turned off by now by people telling me to just believe in Jesus and then beating me over the head with “facts” (which are actually circular reasonings because all they do is restate their previous affirmations) to prove their point of view. I seriously don’t blame you if you never read this comment because you’re so sick of it. Your convictions are no less strong or influential that anyone else’s. Your convictions are based on your doubts about God, and the others’ appear to be based on their belief in the infallibility of the evidence surrounding God.

You appear to take issue with the infallibility of the Bible: or more correctly, divine inspiration. The Bible itself is full of incidences of God’s appearances and influence. I will not attempt to list them here, as I wish to keep this short. However, you are correct in stating that the Bible is full of awful, horrible, unmoral events, too. There is no evidence that these were God-inspired. In fact, Genesis states very clearly that the evil in the world was the result of the fall of man. (See Genesis 3, especially verses 14-24.) The Bible is a very realistic book, and it seeks to show the evil that is present due to forces other than God in the world, and how God offers help to humans who want for His power to fill them in counteraction. I agree with you that most apologetics in general rely on the expression of a statement rather than any fact it might contain as truth. People in general do this and I have nearly been driven to screaming.

So, I really would prefer discussion than to preaching, if that’s alright with you. I am truthfully interested in what you have to say. What books do you consider the best defense of your viewpoint? A last question:

You appear to believe that God cannot be concretely real based on your doubts. However, since your doubts are yours and yours only, how can you say this concretely disproves knowledge for his existence for other people. Thoughts can’t be proven, by nature, to really exist. Doubts are thoughts, so how can you say this is more evidence for the “unknowingness” of God if you doubt him?

I sincerely appreciate the research you have done. If you are willing, I would just as sincerely appreciate discussion. A fellow lover of concrete research, Kara

Ecclesiastes 6:12
For who knows what is good for a man in life, during the few and meaningless days he passes through like a shadow? Who can tell him what will happen under the sun after he is gone?

Have you had any near death experiences? Yes, I remember when I was 12 years old, I went on a road trip in Ecuador and I closed my eyes and stuck my head out the window. Something happened that I suddenly pulled myself back inside the bus. No more than 2 seconds passed by when I saw a huge school bus speeding so close to our bus that had I stuck my hand out the window I could have touched it. It was God’s grace that kept me, keeps me and will continue to keep me.

When was the last time you really thought about death? 2 weeks ago, my dad is ill and I was sad to think that his time is coming near, but I turned on the tv and was watching one of Greg Laurie’s Crusades and he shared how he got through the loss of his son. A video was played that had one closing remark “He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it. -Matthew 10:39″

Would you describe yourself as afraid of death? Be honest. At first glance I very much feared death, but as I began to study God’s Word I was no longer afraid. See, we (as humans) think too much and in so doing, complicate everything. The world views death as the end of our story but God views it as just the beginning of our eternal lives. This is why we must be so very precautious with what we do here on Earth, we must be sure that we are saved and that if at this very moment the trumpet sounds, or something happens… we will return to our Creator.

Death is generally considered a morbid subject. As Christians, should we think about death? If so, how should we think about death? If not, why shouldn’t we think about death? As Christians, we need to know Luke 9:23 [Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me. 24 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it.] We should die on a daily basis to our flesh. This is what the Bible defines as death: Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.” When we, as Christians think of death, we should think of LIFE! Life to our spirit.

We must never forget Mark 12:30 And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ This is the first commandment. [Notice it does not say to love the LORD with all your carnal thinking or flesh. Why? because our flesh does not want to seek God]. John 6:63 “The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing…”

In closing, since life is like a passing shadow, we should live our lives so pleasing to God and to the fullest!

2 Timothy 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

Let us be the best we can be for our Lord’s sake! To the best of our potential!

To Him be all the honor and glory forever and ever. Amen!

What does it look like to live unafraid of death?

0ne of the best examples I can think of comes from the life of Stonewall Jackson.

Lt. General Thomas Jackson speaking to then Captain John D. Imboden:

“General” I remarked, “How is it that you can keep so cool and appear so utterly insensible to danger in such a storm of shell and bullets as rained about you when your hand was hit?” He [Jackson] instantly became grave and reverential in his manner, and answered, in a low tone of great earnestness: “Captain, my religious belief teaches me to feel as safe in battle as in bed. God has fixed the time for my death. I do not concern myself about that, but to be always ready, no matter when it may overtake me.” He added, after a pause, looking me full in the face: “That is the way all men should live, and then all would be equally brave”

(Stonewall Jackson and the American Civil War,
G.F.R Henderson, Vol. 1, p. 163.”)

I also love the quote by Jim Elliot, “He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.”

And the Apostle Paul, “To live is Christ, to die is gain.”

At Oshea: Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I appreciate what you wrote. Nevertheless, I take issue with just about everything you wrote. 🙂

First of all, I am not a philosophical skeptic. I made no such claims (intentionally at least). I never claimed that the existence of God is unknowable in principle. (How would I know that? :)). I said I do not know whether or not God exists because (to me) the evidence is inconclusive. To be perfectly honest, I am more of an atheist questioning my atheism than a theist doubting theism. I suppose agnostic atheism would better describe my position. If I were forced to choose one way or the other, I would lean towards atheism.

You made several claims that you failed to justify whatsoever. I am somewhat familiar with presuppositionalism (Greg Bahnsen, Cornelius Van Til are/were major proponents of this school of apologetics.) To be polite, I am utterly unconvinced. 🙂 There are several problems with their views. One of their major arguments, the transcendental argument, at best argues for a deity of some sort or a Platonic world of forms, not specifically the Christian God. To go from “something out there” to the God of the Bible is quite a leap, you see. It is like attempting to get to the moon by jumping off a trampoline. You’ll never get there. 😉

You also seemed to say that empiricism is the only way to obtain knowledge. (Rather you think that I think this way.) You would be incorrect in this supposition. I would consider myself both a rationalist and an empiricist, as the two are not mutually exclusive.

You ask me to justify reason by reason. I believe reason is actually self-justified and needs no defense. Furthermore, the belief that God is somehow the source of morality and logic is problematic. You may be familiar with the Euthyphro dilemma. (I will not spell it out for you, you can look it up if your memory fails you.)Even if you respond by saying logic and morality come from God’s character rather than commands, the argument can be applied to God’s character as well. Therefore, the theist and atheist are on equal grounds in attempting to build a metaphysical basis for morality and logic.

I am a believer in objective morality, as the atheist philosopher Michael Martin has developed many philosophical arguments for moral objectivity apart from a deity.
Your paragraph concerning Scripture as necessarily true similar to the law of non-contradiction was rather nonsensical, I am afraid. For some odd reason, you think that by saying your beliefs need no justification, the issue is settled. It really doesn’t make any sense. William Lane Craig, an absolutely brilliant Christian apologist has this to say about your position: “Presuppositionalism commits the informal fallacy of begging the question, for it advocates presupposing the truth of Christian theism in order to prove Christian theism. It is difficult to imagine how anyone could with a straight face think to show theism to be true by reasoning, ‘God exists, therefore God exists.’ A Christian theist himself will deny that question-begging arguments prove anything.” Five Views on Apologetics (p. 233).

Here’s another good quote from another apologist (commenting on presuppositionalist John Frame): Gary R. Habermas: “Van Tillians seem to have a notion that all presuppositions except the most circular ones are on the same level. Since no one can be neutral, we must all begin with some sort of prior notions. Given such a stance, they can basically begin with the truth of Christian theism in at least some form. But somehow Frame proceeds from here to Scripture, as if this entire body of truth is justified by the need for a starting point.”

“Here Frame commits the informal logical fallacy of false analogy. He argues that rationalists must accept reason as an ultimate starting point, just as empiricists assume sense experience, and so on. So the Christian may begin with Scripture as a legitimate starting point. But these are not analogous bases. While the rationalist uses reason and the empiricist uses sense experience as tools from which to construct their systems, Frame assumes both the tool of special revelation and the system of Scripture, from which he develops his Christian theism. In other words, he assumes the reality of God’s existence, his personal interaction with humans, plus a specific product: Scripture. Does Frame not realize that, in the name of everyone needing a presupposition, he has imported an entire worldview when others have only asked for tools?”

“But these presuppositions are not all created equal! Frame allows rationalists and empiricists their methodological hook, while he demands the hook, line, and sinker for Christianity!” Five Views on Apologetics (p. 242).

Those are the major things I took issue with in your comment. I have some more issues with what you wrote, but I am not interested in writing a book. 🙂

Lindsey: Thanks for the recommendation. I am somewhat skeptical of philosophical materialism as well. I agree that evolution does not necessarily prove materialism.

I like John Lennox, but he is more liberal theologically. I believe evolution clearly disproves the best interpretation of the Bible (fundamentalist and literal). I can not really hold to liberal theology, at least not right now. I don’t see it. 🙂

However, I am intrigued by deism, like Antony Flew (atheist turned deist). Who can say for sure that a deist God didn’t create the world? It’s a real possibility.

Again in response to Kelsey:

I am not an Arminian, at least not that I know of. 😉 If I discover that I am, I will have my people contact your people. I am not a Calvinist, either. In fact, I do not belong to any school of theology at this point. I actually like to read the Bible for myself and see what it really says, rather than another human’s interpretation of it. Tricky, huh? Most of the problems you have explained as being your major issues with Christianity and God come from theology, and someone’s interpretation of the Bible. What a “great” theological leader says about a verse is not necessarily what a particular verse says in actuality.

On Isaiah 45:7:
I looked up the word evil as used in this context in Strong’s Exhaustive concordance. There was an interesting note under the heading, “God’s actions of judgment are disagreeable to the wicked (Eze 14:21) but are not ethically evil”. From the same source on the use of the word create: “Can refer to creating form nothing as well as to reforming existing materials”. The last part of the definition (which would be in italics if I knew how to do it) fits right in with Numbers 31! God is using death in the hands of the Israelites in order to bring judgment on an evil nation. The backstory to the death of the “older” women is that the most beautiful young women created a plot to entice the young men of Israel away from God by capturing them with their beauty, then entering into marriage under the condition that they forsake God and serve the regional deities. Their death was God’s judgment on them at the hands of the God-fearing Israelites. Notice the young women who had not participated were spared. The boys were the children who would pass on the hate of their oppressors if allowed to live. (See also Josephus’s account of this story, Book 4 of the Antiquities of the Jews, chapter 6.) Why did pharaoh decree for all the boys to be killed? (See Exodus 1:16.) On misogyny, notice that God Himself gives very little rules from His mouth as to how women are to be treated. The Hebrews added much to His original decrees, as seen with their elaborate feasts today. His instructions were very pared down, and He never sought to abuse or belittle women, from my readings (and I have read a ton of the Bible). Some laws may also have a cultural context.

Earlier you said that the existence of God could not be known, but in your reply to my first comment you seemed to equate God with leprechauns, i.e. something that does not exist. I am curious as to what caused your shift. Also curious if any personal event set you towards questioning you own Reformed theology. More questions: If God “died”, then how could He not have existed at some point? What is your definition of a soul? What would a “justified” faith look like to you? If it is a concrete truth that we as humans and our abstract psyche that invariably comes with that exist, why can we not prove other abstracts? What do you consider the best evidence for evolution? What are the best and worst defenses you have read of Christianity? How many books have you read “for” it?

Sorry, that was a lot of questions, but I am curious! My last suggestion is read the Bible, not theological books of man, since you are so well-read in those already. See what God directly says and what others have added. This may help a lot. Approaching the Bible like this has cleared up various issues of confusion for me, at least on how the principles of a “biblical” movement began. Kara

P. S. On my dictionary definition-level knowledge of presuppositional theology, it is not rational to argue on an assumed base to a skeptic! It’s just not logical, or commonsensical! 😉

I don t how many of ya ll have a friend your age die. I have, and I know. It is so scary.I am thirteen and Curtis was fifteen.He was the life of the party,the friend at all times,and a amazing young man. (ladies he was the man of our dreams) Anyway Alex and Brett you are saying is echoing my thoughts.

Halcie: Thanks for the recommendation. I have to say, however, that creationism (young earth, world wide flood, humans created 6,000 years ago) is not considered a legitimate scientific theory for many good reasons. Creationism is not just an attack on evolution. It is an attack on science itself. Multiple fields of science attest to the fact that the earth is VERY old and that animals (including humans) have evolved from simpler life forms. If they are all wrong, there is no good reason to trust science as a fairly reliable way of obtaining knowledge about the natural world.

Creationism is not a “cutting edge theory.” It was the reigning paradigm for hundreds of years in the scientific community. It has been thoroughly falsified.

You mentioned that you have done lots of research. What books on evolution have you read (from an evolutionary perspective)? It is important to research both sides of an issue.

Science and Religion can work together. I am a pastor’s kid so I listen to how he explains that he is a scientist and a religious leader. He explains that the bible asks two questions, who and why, where science ask how and when. Now the two can co-exist because as long as you do not read into the bible (reading more then what the bible is actually saying, for instance when god created the animals in the sea, most think fish, where I think micro-organisms ect), but when you read out of the bible you are read just what is there are trying to figure out what it means to you. The reason the co-existing cannot work with reading into the bible is because everyone assumes it took God six twenty-four hour days to create the world, where as God actually exist out of time space and therefore we can have no concept of how long it actually took. Now if I look at genesis I look at it and think it is there just to give some small means of explaining how powerful God is and how we must live by grace (that and explain the whole creation of the tribes of Israel)
So yeah, both can work together, you just need to be open minded. (Which unfortunately most are not
.)

That sounds like something 1 of my brothers would do, and there’s 4 of them! =] The only near death experience that i can remember is once when i was like 4 i fell into a pond that had a net over it. i coud’ve gotten caught in the net and drowned but i didn’t.
Guess God wanted me here on earth.
In august, my 2 year old brother died from a heart defect that we didn’t know about.
You really never are 2 young 2 die.
I am not afraid of death. I just hope i can get everything done that i want 2 by the time i do.
your sister in Christ,
Ashlee

Kelsie, Halcie,

Did either of you read the message I left? 11/15/08?

~ David

P.S. Sorry for your loss Ashlee.

I want to jump into the Kelsey discussion so much hahaha but I know there’s a lot there already and it must be ridiculous to have to write such in depth responses to all these people. I want to commend Kelsey on being informed! I grow so frustrated with ignorance. I encourage you to continue reading, I know several good books have been suggested, but I think it best to supplement it all with the Bible. And in everything, seek God. He wants you to know Him and to make Himself known to you, but He can’t force you to accept Him or to acknowledge Him. Your heart has to be open and willing.

* Has your life been marked by foolish confidence or needless fear?
I seem to think I’m invincible when I’m driving. I’m the biggest supporter of God working miracles in modern day simply because I’ve seen so many work in my favor!

* What does it look like to live as if life is a vapor?
Living life as a vapor requires attentiveness. You don’t ignore things and you notice things that no one else does. All of a sudden, you enjoy simple things much more like 5 minutes to be able to sit still or some pretty flowers in a window. You live more in the here and now, but not in a whimsical or reckless fashion. Instead, you are utterly aware of here and now and are careful in your actions because it might be the last thing you ever do, and to leave this world with a misplaced word or a slap to someone’s face would be catastrophic. You listen to people when they talk to you and you savor each bite you take and you give a smile when others give you angry words. Pet peeves are no more, anxiety and stress have expired, and setbacks are simply setbacks. Our relationships with God are more intimate and meaningful. Changing the world becomes an immediate possibility.

* What does it look like to live unafraid of death?
Being unafraid of death allows you to hear God tell you things you couldn’t hear before. When you fear death, anything that might cause death is not allowed into your though processes. Once that fear is gone, God can call you to change the world in ways you would never imagine. A generation without fear of death is a generation of Jim Elliots.

* Bonus: What is the difference between foolhardiness and fearlessness?
Hahaha, there’s a bonus question like this is a quiz.

Foolhardiness is when you act in ways that endanger yourself with no thought for anyone else. This can be thrill-seeking behavior such as bungee jumping, cliff diving, swimming with sharks, etc. Or it can be things such as drinking, drugs, lots of random sex, etc. Fearlessness is courage and bravery and chivalry. Fearlessness is when the thought of your own safety never even enters your mind. Fearlessness is a fighter pilot flying right over enemy territory. Fearlessness is throwing your body over a grenade. Fearlessness is entering a hostile tribe to preach the gospel. Fearlessness is standing up for the rights of those who can’t.

hmmm…

I asked my school mate about death. ‘ Do you afraid a death?’ He says: ‘ Of course I do…’

I’m from Poland, Europe… In my 40 mln people country are only about 200 000 people who knows Christ as his Saviour. Here be obedient [for] God is really hard but not impossible.
I don’t afraid death, but thousand of thousand of thousand people around me afraid, because they don’t know what will be after life.
I know – heaven, for me….
But what with all these people? – my family, school mates, students, teachers, politicians, clerks, workmen… Hell and eternal damnation….

Pray for Poland…

Omg yes! we shouldn’t live our life in fear of death but live a full life in Gods Glory

Those are some great scriptures in there. Also, I like how you wrote the lyrics to “In Christ Alone”. This is going to be a good series.

Those who reject the doctrine of God’s eternal wrath upon the wicked do not love the God of the Bible, but a false god, an idol of their own vain imaginations. Of them it is written, they “will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.” (2 Peter 2:1)

I love “In Christ Alone”!!
I recently used it on my blog!

Kelsey~
Have you tried praying? You say you want to believe that God exists, pray to Him, ask him to reveal Himself to you. God loves you and He wants you to come to Him. Believing that God does not exist is not going to change the fact that He does! Nobody can prove that God does or does not exist.
Whatever decision a person makes is made on the basis of faith. You cannot just choose the most logical point of view or the one with the most evidence, it does not work that way! The Bible says draw near to God and He will draw near to you. God is always there, He will always love you, but it is up to you to seek Him with all your heart. You are seeking, you are searching, but have you spoken to Him have you poured out your heart to Him, have you drawn near to Him? If you have not please try! I will be praying for you. =)

Young people die all the time. Whether in car accidents or because of some disease or cancer. I know a girl of ten who came very close to dying because of a brain tumor. Teenagers are in a lot of danger. I have been in a couple of close to drowning situations, I was only five and eight. We need to take death more seriously and htink more about it. I love that last verse in ‘In Christ Alone’! I and my sister translated it into sign language and every time I sign it, I think about the words. ‘No fear in death.’ I have witnessed a Christian lady on her death bed, she was not afraid of death. Christ is always with us. I’m sure when you’re dying Christ gives you a peace unexplainable. In my two near death experiences, I could feel Christ holding me and telling me not to be afraid. Obviously it had an impact on me, becuase I still remember both those times ten years later from five years old. He saved me from those, but a time could come when He decides it’s time for me to go home. I have embraced that. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not suicidal or anything. I just know that when God calls me home, I will be there quickly. We need to be witnessing, who knows who’s going to die today. I have read that about 500,000 people die every day. That’s a lot. I encourage you to be a light to the world around you.
~Elizabeth~

P.S. ‘In Christ Alone’ is by Keith and Kristyn Getty. The whole song is a great song. Beautiful.

Jesus is amazing his peace is the peace that no man can understand
it is so powerfull that you love to die now before tommowo

http://www.youtube.com/seekjesus1

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I have not thought about death in a while, but it is a very important subject. Like you said, we are all going to die, when and how is the question. Nowadays we often here the phrase YOLO, which mean “You Only Live Once.” This is the truth, but it is often meant that you should fill your days with partying and all the fun you can have. You only live once, but if you do it right in preparing for the coming of Christ, once is enough. Jesus Christ suffered and died for us, and all he asks is that we prepare our souls for the fearful day of judgement. Thank you guys for posting a series about, well, death.

BlimeyCow? 🙂

🙂 Yeah! I honestly haven’t followed them closely for a few months – been really busy! But those guys are great!

Ooooohhh, BlimeyCow!! Those videos are hilarious! Especially the “You Might Be a Homeschooler If…” series. I just watched a few videos, it made my day :).