AMANDA WRITES: I am really saddened by the decision made by the Supreme Court last week. I knew it was coming, but it’s still upsetting.
I’m wondering how we as teenagers can defend the biblical teaching on marriage and speak up for the truth in a loving way. Gay people often label those who disagree with them as hateful and judgmental. We are called to speak the truth in love.
How can we let them know we love them while still holding to our belief that what they are doing is wrong? How can we encourage them to stop what they’re doing and find a new life through Christ without them thinking we’re being hateful?
Share Your Thoughts in the Comment Section!
There are currently 7 Comment(s)
There are currently 7 Comment(s)
Have something else you’d like to discuss? Just submit your question or topic (and any elaboration you’d like to provide) using our Submit Content Page. We look forward to hearing from you.
Reach out in humility because you’re both in the same boat before God. You’re guilty. But Jesus saved you and he will save some of them.
Also, I think kindness is key. Show hospitality and build relationships before you jump on their most obvious sin.
And really, whe aren’t trying to fix their behavior. But to lead them to Jesus and the heart change that will bring them lasting enjoyment, instead of the weak pleasures that come from our substitute gods. So focus on the gospel. Hope this helps.!
First, be willing to be friends with them, even if they disagree with you. Second, realize that (like @disqus_oyvaFwmD2o:disqus said) we are all in the same position in terms of sin. Without God, we are condemned, guilty, and without hope. Third, realize that our nation’s marriage problem is far larger than gay marriage. Gay marriage is just a symptom of a much larger problem of how marriage is viewed as a means of getting pleasure, whatever kind. This completely contradicts the Bible’s view of marriage being a completely selfless thing—a lifelong commitment to serve each other, regardless of what the future holds. Other symptoms of this problem include widespread divorce. The church needs to become an example of Biblical marriage, and, sadly, it’s not. Divorce rates in the American church are actually a couple percentage points HIGHER than in the country in general. HIGHER! There’s something MAJORLY wrong here. We need to practice what we preach. Not just claim that you’re a supporter of traditional marriage, when you’ve actually been married three times, like Donald Trump does. Keep in mind that changing someone’s behavior, no matter how wrong it might be, will never bring them salvation. God must bring salvation, then He will convict and make change.
Also, work against the stigma against gay and lesbian people in the church, especially men. There are many of these people in the church today who are struggling. Most churches either negate the truth of God’s Word and say gay relationships are fine, or pretend these people don’t exist in the church (“No true Christian is gay” mentality). Both of these are harmful mentalities. Find ways to support these people in their struggles with sin. Approach it with humility, as we have all experienced temptation, and none is any “worse” than other.
GREAT advice so far!!!! I think what has been said is right on the money! Your heart seems to be 100% in the right place Amanda! I too was completely disheartened by the decision. I was also disheartened to find out how many people in my extended family either condone or adopt this lifestyle! It prompted me, like you, to wonder “How am I to deal with this situation?” I have people that I love SO much living this lifestyle!! I don’t WANT to offend them! I don’t want them to feel like I’m judging them, but maybe I need to stand up anyway!! I think it’s important to know that people WILL probably think we are hateful, judgmental, and rude (whether we are being that way or not); and to be okay with that! What we can’t do is shy away from speaking truth just because it offends people!! We have to be strong!!
@karljacobn:disqus and @disqus_oyvaFwmD2o:disqus have already spoken the things I was thinking, I just want to add to what they have said: DON”T BE AFRAID TO STAND FIRM! Don’t fear what people think! Their soul is more important than their feelings! If they want to be offended or feel like we’re judgmental and rude; let them! It’s only temporary…If they don’t realize it before they die, then they will will realize then that you were right all along!
Also, just living by example speaks truth! Truth is not only spoken in words, but in actions. If we are being an example then maybe that alone will cause them to realize they are wrong! But ultimately, like spoken already, God is the one that brings conviction and changes hearts!
I encourage you most of all to pray!! Speaking truth is love is played out in SO many ways!! God calls everyone to share in different ways at different times. Maybe he is calling you to go and talk to that gay couple in Starbucks and share truth with them. Maybe he’s calling you to build a stronger relationship with that person you just met to build trust before you share with him/her. Maybe he’s calling you to write a letter to the Supreme Court pleading your case! I don’t know what God is calling you to do!!! There’s no one answer here! It boils down to praying and asking God what he wants you to do! HE will show you the answer, and he alone!
I believe you have to know what you stand up for and why you stand up for that. If you are against something.. have verses in the Bible that can prove why that particular thing is wrong. As @disqus_Sh6PyJ3MsP:disqus said “STAND FIRM! Don’t be afraid what people think” People will try to shake you and conform you, but follow God’s Word.. be kind to these people, witness to them, tell them that what they are doing is wrong!
And then when you go to evangelize to someone that is very blatantly disobeying God’s Word, be hopeful as you witness to those people about God’s view on their sin. God truly wants all people to turn to Him! If we really desire to tell people about God.. He will give us the words to say when we don’t know exactly how to say what we need to say.
Yeah, in some cases it does seem like they’ll call us judgmental haters no matter how loving we are. Like Jordan Taylor of Blimey Cow pointed out, disagreeing with someone has become a huge offense in this culture. :/ but we’ve still gotta stand firm. I haven’t had situations like that yet, but I know I will in the future, so it’s good to talk about this stuff now! 🙂
Amen Karl!
The Supreme Court’s decision made me disheartened. Honestly, I wasn’t feeling too patriotic as this fourth of July dawned. Today I am grateful for the years of freedom, and the blessings God has seen fit to bestow on this country. I am proud to stand for the morals America was founded upon.
As we go through these times in our country, i would encourage that we remember the message of II Timothy 1:7. God doesn’t give us fear. It’s only through Him we have the power of love and a sound mind. As far as carrying out this attitude of love, I think that @disqus_Sh6PyJ3MsP:disqus, and everyone else covered that very well 🙂
Happy Fourth everyone! May God continue to have mercy on our country.
“18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world,[g] in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.
Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. 2 We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. 3 Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? 5 But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed.”
Guys, before God saved you, you were just as bad as the worst sinner out there. Keep that in mind while witnessing. =)
Ok. Here is the best thing I have heard on the subject. Yes it’s a conference lecture, but I think everyone should listen to it: http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=1031141984110
It’s great — 58 min long.
Yes, yes yes. We have to be careful not to judge, but to care. True love for another human being does not want to see them suffer in sin, wants to help, and doesn’t not condemn. It doesn’t mean ignore or embrace the problem, it means to act in Christian love.
Weeellll, we can’t “not judge”….Ken Ham says “Now, people often take Matthew 7:1 out of
context and claim we are not to judge—but when you read the whole
passage carefully, Christ is actually warning believers against making
judgments in a hypocritical or condemning manner. Jesus also stated in John 7:24,
“Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous
judgment.” Notice the Lord’s command to judge. But before we make a
judgment, we must make sure we are judging righteously from God’s Word
and not relying on our own opinion.” #justsaying =D
Thank you for pointing that out. I worded my comment poorly, and i was wrong.
BAM, nailed it! 🙂
Hey, your English is much better than my Portuguese! 🙂 Welcome to the Reb, and good comment!
I’m super confused because the thing is, if you’re speaking to non-Christians (as most gay people are not Christian), you can’t use the bible or Jesus as evidence. As much as we believe the bible to be the absolute truth, people who are not saved will dismiss our point straight away- it’s like having a terrorist trying to justify their actions using the Quran- we dont believe in Allah, therefore their reason is invalid. This is why I’m really puzzled as to how to speak up for the truth about marriage. I agree that we need to hold fast to God’s truth, and we also need to love gay people. But how? How do we tell people that the Creator of the universe is firmly against that aspect of their lifestyle lovingly when (many of them) dont believe he exists, and the bible to them is an outdated, homophobic lawbook? And I feel like the “we all sin so don’t judge” argument doesn’t cut it, because where do we go from there? If we have a problem with lying, we try to put a stop to it whereas gay people in a relationship consciously continue being together.
I am so glad this topic came up on here. I was so confused about the same thing. The supreme court’s decision saddened me greatly, and I just recently found out that a friend of mine says that she is lesbian. It hurt me deeply. But, it also emboldened me to stand firm with my faith. I am really enjoying reading all these comments with advice and various scripture. It is really encouraging in a world full of people who see Christians as exclusive and hateful.
Maybe because you don’t *speak* Portuguese?
I agree with Nat. I’ve thought about this for awhile, since I have some friends who aren’t gay, but support homosexuality. I think the best thing to say to those who are gay or lesbian or bi or whatever and aren’t Christian is, “I can’t hold you to standards that you don’t have. But I will stay true to what I believe and what I believe says that marriage is only between a man and a woman. I love you, and because I love you I’m going to try my best to do what I think will help you.” In the end, people just might not listen because they don’t want to hear what’s true. On a different note, I do think that for people who are Christians and are homosexual and/or say being homosexual is fine, I think that showing them scripture is probably a good idea. But no matter what, just pray. I think that’s the best thing to do.
2 Thessalonians 2:16-17
Look up what Ray comfort has to say about all of that. Super great stuff!
Yeah that’s about where I’m at right now. :/
Just remember truth is the new hate speech. Because truth sounds like hate to those who hate truth
Well, here is how one person did it: http://adam4d.com . If you are looking at this later click on ‘archives’ and then ‘If you’re gay, I want you to know that I don’t hate you’. It is really good.
Don’t worry about it! =D
Haha, thanks!
That guy has some awesome comics. 🙂
I think that’s where we need to trust that the Word of God will do the work of God. Be faithful to put the truth out there in a rational loving way, and let Him do the heart work.
I know! It can be hard to argue something Biblical when no one cares what the Bible says. Honestly, these people can do what they like in their own homes, but there are some very good arguments we can use to stop it being legalized. The main one is that it’s unfair for them to adopt children. I talked about the arguments on my blog (http://plainsaltychips.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/the-definition-of-marriage.html)
Scarlet Pimpernel, haven’t seen you around in like forever! How are you doing?
Great points! (:
I’m good, just been busy. Thanks! How about you?
I’m good, too! 🙂 What have you been doing?
I’ve been thinking about how to convey my beliefs about marriage and its meaning to non-Christians and……. came up completely dry. I’m really glad this question was asked, and have enjoyed pondering all the replies.
There are many Christians who have been putting a rainbow filter over their profile pictures this past week, though. They are much easier to talk to about this subject, as there are biblical things we can point to. There’s no guarantee that they’ll change their minds, but I’m 99% sure it will get them thinking. Here’s an article that highlights some of those:
http://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/kevindeyoung/2015/07/01/40-questions-for-christians-now-waving-rainbow-flags/
When I am asked what I think about it I tell the truth. I say that I don’t hate the people but as a child of God, I do hate their sin. The bible says many times that homosexuality is wrong. God made Adam and Eve and not Adam and Steve. As Christians, we are going to be hated no matter what we do or say. I am sad that my generation has to deal with this junk. I am against gay life, but I am also against the lifestyle of gay haters. I don’t think that God calls us to hate people ever. There is a verse in Ecclesiastes that talks about having a time for everything. It says there is a time to be silent and a time to speak up. I think the holy spirit helps us discern when those time are. For instance, If I posted on Facebook that I disagree with the gay lifestyle, I would most likely get ridiculed and hated and lose my witness to those friends all because I am one of those “gay haters”. But if I waited until I was with a friend who asked how I felt about it, I would tell them that I have to hate that sin, but I don’t have to hate those people. If we don’t ever show them love, how are we ever going to tell them it’s wrong in a way that doesn’t make them think we hate them.
Summer stuff mostly. Library, went on vacation for a week, stuff like that. I’ve also been helping my church get ready for it’s vbs program. And some stuff to get ready for school. (So mostly summer reading.)
Oh I saw that article 🙂 it’s good!
Is the rainbow thing like the symbol of gay people or whatever? Like pink and Susan G. Komen?
I guess I hit the nail on the head as my comment was deleted…
as long as you guys think male leadership involves men pretending they are women and allowing their wives to pretend they are men
you have no biblical argument against gay marriage…
I would have though hearing from a gay individual would be part of such a discussion…
I found a really great quote on the Australian Christian Lobby website (an organization that lobbies for Christian values in politics): “No one denies that two men can love a baby, but is it right for those men to deny that child her or his mother?
No one denies that two women can love a baby, but is it right for a child to be denied a father?
Kids miss out on parents because of tragedy or desertion. They should not miss out because of government policy.” (http://www.acl.org.au/2015/06/five-us-judges-have-redefined-marriage-heres-what-australians-can-do-to-preserve-our-definition/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=eNews%2030%20June%202015&utm_content=eNews%2030%20June%202015+CID_4decc8e39927c20635c7a7e8ecc1aa84&utm_source=CreateSend&utm_term=ee%20what%20you%20can%20do)
Australia hasn’t legalized it yet, but there was another quote that summed up what happened in America: “The five judges overturned the democratic votes of more than 50 million Americans in 31 States which have voted to keep marriage as
between one man and one woman.
Only 11 states permitted same-sex marriage through legislative or voter action.
Everywhere else, judges have made the decision for the people on
behalf of the homosexual lobby. America, the land that gave us ‘we the
people’, has ceded its democracy to ‘you the judges’.”
Another thing I would mention is to hate the sin but love the people, and make that very clear.
I like your point about tolerance! As Christians, we’re called to be loving, but not to be tolerant. We have to follow the Bible no matter how intolerant it seems.
And your English is great!
I saw a picture at the Creation museum that explained it best.
[bear with me… it may take a thousand words to describe this lol]
There are two castles drawn in cartoon. The first castle is the castle of unbelievers. All of the people are busy blowing up balloons with words like “abortion” and “gay-marriage” on them. They always have more balloons ready to blow up.
The other castle is the Christian castle. The Christians have cannons, but they aren’t doing anything useful. Some people are napping. One guys is super excited as he fires as nothing as all (wrong direction…), and a couple people are aiming their cannons at the balloons, and managing to pop a few.
The problem is, the unbelievers just keep blowing up more balloons. Popping balloons does no good. What the Christians need to do is attack the foundation of unbelief. That is the calling of the Church.
Exactly! Since I don’t speak any Portuguese, his English is much better than my non-existent skill.
Yeah… sadly most people think of gay people when they see rainbows (its the symbol) instead of how God promised to never again flood the entire world…
I’m afraid I don’t understand exactly what you’re saying. Could you elaborate a little bit more what you’re trying to get across? Thanks!
CHRISTY!!!!!!! 🙂
Lol, Taylor! That, I admit, made me smile a little( although, I didn’t actually literally lol, but it was still funny). 😉
Okay, a little smile. I’ll take that! 🙂
Yep! Any smile is better than no smile. Just imagine if I told you that I had frowned instead? 😉
Haha, you know how to make a girl feel welcome. XD I know it’s not much for a first comment back, but at least it’s something!
Exactly! I’ll just take what I can get!
Yo, Christy! Welcome back! Long time no see!
Yes, Christy its nice to see you back on here! Are you back for good or are you just here to say “Hi” and then disappear again?! 😉
Just for a heads up, next time I comment on something you say, I might just decide to tell you that it made me frown (even though for real, hardly anything actually makes me frown, [unless its cleaning a house for a bunch of guys, which I have attempted to do before. ;)] ).
That would make me frown too. I’ll be ready!
Thanks, Taylor! Yup, it’s been a while…
How’s life?
Hey, I’m hopefully back for good! I was going through some difficult life stuff for a while, and ended up unintentionally taking a break from the Reb. So how’ve you been?
Life’s been pretty good. I was absent from the Reb because I was going through a difficult time, but things are getting better. I just got back from a vacation in Alaska. 🙂 What about you?
Awe! I understand! I am sorry for the difficult stuff you have had to face, but I am sure it has made you grow closer to God and I know he had a purpose in it all. I do hope things are going better now, though.
Life is going pretty well for me. Pretty busy and also facing some difficult life situations, but trying to learn to trust and depend on God more and let him control my life rather than me control it. 😉 Tis’ a hard lesson for me to learn.
Vacationing in Alaska sounds sweet!
Busy, but great!
I would like to hear input as I seem to be the minority here.
Here’s what I believe: God created us, humankind, with man to desire and love a woman, and a woman to desire and love a man. Period. Then sin came into the world and corrupted our views of lust and love and many other things. In today’s world, I don’t know if gay people were born that way, if it was a choice or if it was anything else and, to be honest, I do NOT care about that. I believe a person’s sexuality is between them, God and their partner, regardless of them being gay, straight, bi or whatever.
I don’t believe its my place to judge them, as I think many of you would agree, or try to “fix” them. I have gay friends (many of them are close to God) and we don’t talk about the subject because its not my place, just like when I’m talking to straight friends. I do believe they are living in sin but there’s nothing that I could do about it anyway.
I think the Supreme Court’s decision was a good thing for two reasons. 1 – I don’t think our government should have say in our personal lives. (But thats politics so I won’t go into it) 2 – These two people who want to get married make each other happy. I don’t see anything wrong with that. God loves them, (in many cases) they love God. And, like I said before, sexuality is between a person, God and their partner, not government and the Church.
Please reply! I’ve been thinking a lot about this lately and I would like to hear from y’all!
Why, thank you, welcoming is one of the few services I offer! 😉
Hi, Sadie! First of all, thanks for putting your viewpoint out here. I realize your position is the minority, as you said, so it takes guts to put your opinion out there anyway. Thank you for that courage.
I’ll admit I’m not sure I’ve ever met someone who holds your position. (I always enjoy coming across a PoV I’ve never heard of before! 🙂 I guess I’ll say what I agree with you on first!
I certainly agree with you that we should not judge them (in the typical sense of that word) or try to fix them. That’s not in my ability or my place. I also think that there are homosexuals who truly believe that homosexuality is not condemned in the Bible, and really do love God, while living in what I believe to be sin.
What I am in disagreement with you on to a point is the idea of not addressing sin in a friend’s life. I agree with you to a point. I wouldn’t point out every sin in friend’s lives, maybe not even most sins in a friend’s life. But I happen to know that most Christian friends I have, and I can testify for myself, want you to call us on our sins/mistakes. Please don’t let me just continue walking in sin. If you see me consistently living a lifestyle contrary to the Bible, you’re not doing me any favors by ignoring it and letting me think all is okay.
I actually agree with your first point for why the Supreme Court’s decision was good. I too have a hard time getting upset that the government stepped off regulations! 🙂 But in my opinion, your second argument is flawed. While God does want people happy, happiness while disobeying His Word is not in His will. I may be much happier not resisting temptation and getting intimate with the other gender. That doesn’t mean God is good with that cause it makes me happy. His ultimate goal is not my happiness.
I agree that a person’s walk with God is between them and God, but as a friend, I may step in and try to point them in the right direction if I see them err, as I would hope my friends would do for me.
Obviously, it’s a delicate topic, and certainly not one you should hammer or pursue. But I do think it’s important not to simply let a brother or sister continue in sin without comment.
I too would be interested in your thoughts! Please tell me if I’m not making sense or if I was illogical at any point throughout this. Thank you again for being courageous enough to voice your opinion here, even though it is not necessarily the popular opinion.
OH YEAH I’ve seen that cartoon!
Ooh, that sounds like fun!
We should probably stop talking so off-topic on here…
well
most christians say now real men sho servant leadership by
abandoning their calling
and their jobs or career
to do homemaking
and care for the kids
– look up the six requirements for a Godly spouse article on here
yet if an christian said wives should give up their career and focus and the home and cook and clean etc
everyone would scream misogynist
accept no where in the bible does it ask men to do homemaking
but christians teach that
no where in the bible does it say women should NOT be workers at home
yet christians pretend that passage does not exist
if Christians are allowed to pretend those passages do not exist
or guilt men who have jobs as surgeons and need to work long hours , or are in the military , or on the mission field into quitting their calling
then gays are allowed to marry and be christian, as they are doing the same thing as you christians
pretending a set of verses do not apply anymore
Numerous verses from Isaiah 3: 12
to 1 Corinthians 11:9
suggest that women were created to assist and help men
not try and make men take over their roles and duties
but instead men are yelled at for working hard at a job,like they are commanded to do so
so if you get to be feminists and pretend Gender roles do not matter
the gays get to pretend their marriages are a blessing in God’s eyes
Interesting. So I guess what you’re saying is that if Christians ignore verses regarding gender roles, then gays should be free to disregard verses regarding homosexuality? Am I understanding your position correctly?
There’s a couple of fallacies in your reasoning that I see though. First of all, a difference of interpretation or even outright ignoring of particular verses from some Christians does not give us permission to do whatever we want. What other Christians are doing has nothing to do with what I am called to do as a Christian man.
Secondly, you seem to be assuming a lot about the majority of American men. I personally don’t know any dad’s that have forsaken their calling to provide for their families. So I think it’s a false assumption to presume that all, or even most, Christian men are ignoring their roles.
Lastly, gender roles really have little to nothing to do with the discussion at hand. If you believe (as it seems you do from your comment) that homosexuality is wrong, then what the rest of Christendom is doing is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand.
Please don’t hesitate to point out a mistake in my logic or correct me if I have misrepresented you in any way. Am I understanding your position correctly?
I had a classmate ask me (an outspoken Christian in my public school) that I am having trouble answering.
“If God is love, like you say He is, then why is gay marriage wrong? How do you know it’s not real love? Shouldn’t you love everyone no matter what?”
I am aware that God is love, but God also designed marriage to be between a man and a women. Any input is welcome! 🙂
there is no difference between father and mother anymore
a servant leading father looks just like a pre feminist era mother….
just like feminists
many gays like Matthew Vines etc would say it is just a difference on interpretation
people forget that this is the word of God we are dealing with
a difference of interpretation means one side is endorsing sin
Gender roles are crucial
gay marriage is built on the idea that roles are irrelevant
men can do women’s roles- something christians like Keller, Chandler, Carolyn James endorse
and women can do mens roles
and be conformed to God’s word
thus if there are no roles
you logically cannot say 2 men cannot get married
and this is not about obeying God’s word
as you christians have allowed women to disobey Titus 2:5 for example….
all christian men may not be ignoring their roles
but many are
and most are teaching younger men to pretend they are women and do homemaking so as to support their wife’s desire to provide, work and pretend she is a man…
but is there any difference between Adam and Eve?
most christians do not think there is a difference so God might as well have made Adam and Steve…
God is love, but doesn’t he explicitly say that adultery is wrong? Adultery could be called love, but it’s not the kind of “love” that pleases God; the same for gay “love”. Also, Jesus himself says that marriage consists of one man and one woman, the same definition given in Genesis.
God loves all people, even in our sin. We can love LGBT people and their supporters and disagree with them at the same time.
@disqus_oMHOgFTIn3:disqus makes a lot of really good points. I don’t think we should judge those who are gay, or anyone for that matter, based on their decisions. We should love them, and if they are Christians, loving them includes telling them that what they believe or practice is displeasing to God.
Galatians 6:1 Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted.
If they were to point out that the Bible doesn’t say that gay marriage is wrong, you don’t have to go far to see the biblical definition of marriage. In Genesis, the definition of marriage is one man and one woman. Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed for many sins, including unnatural lust. Jesus defines marriage in the New Testament as one man and one woman.
This doesn’t apply to nonbelievers because as @scarlet_pimpernel:disqus points out, you can’t hold someone to standards that they don’t have. The only thing you can do for non-believing LGBT people/supporters is to befriend them, and show Christ to them through your life, beliefs and attitude. It’s wrong to think of them as projects, or try to “fix” them. They should be treated as what they are, people who need the love and grace of God just like us. The same can be said for murderers, cheats, liars and 5th graders who forged their parent’s signature on a report card. Everyone needs forgiveness, no matter who they are.
Regarding the Supreme Court’s decision, and your views on it, the government shouldn’t control our personal lives, and our personal decisions aren’t between us and the government. (though, there is the whole “give unto Caesar’s what is Caesar’s” thing, but that doesn’t apply here) The thing is, this decision has meddled in the lives of those who don’t support gay marriage. A bakery that refused to bake a cake for an LGBT wedding was sued a for quite a lot of money (that they didn’t have), and their GoFundMe account towards raising the money to pay the government was shut down. This was even before the government announced their decision. A few days ago, a farmer who refused to have a gay wedding on his farm was sued.
Also, as I said earlier, I agree with you that the government shouldn’t have a say in our decisions based on belief. What I disagree with is your view that the Church shouldn’t have a say in how we as believers act. God can and does speak to us through is people, and again I could point to Galatians 6:1. Also, in a lot of Paul’s letters to the churches, he points out that it is necessary to have fellowship with other believers.
All in all, this is a very difficult topic to talk about without coming across the wrong way, or seeming insensitive, so please let me know if I was rude in any way.
I do though, really appreciate a different viewpoint and a whole different set of ideas to ponder. I would appreciate feedback, and would love to discuss this with any of you.
Your classmate is right in the sense that we should love everyone no matter what, but we don’t have to love people’s sin. (kind of like what Abby said.) Homosexuality is regarded as a sin in the bible, and God, who is Love, is incompatible with sin. While God’s unconditional love outweighs and has defeated sin, it doesn’t deny the fact that sin is wrong.
I think your classmate is confused because the Love in the phrase “God is Love” is different to romantic/erotic love, and since they’re different, you can’t really say that one equals the other. (especially a twist in romantic love.)
There are 4 words for Love in Greek which makes things really confusing for us English-speakers. When the bible says “God is Love”, the word used is “Agape”-unconditional, compassionate love, not “Eros” (the love that involves sexuality.) While erotic love is beautiful in its own right, it can have flaws. It’s unfair to include flaws of other loves as the Love that God is. Maybe homosexuality is love in an erotic sense, but you can’t equate that with the agape Love that God is.
I hope this makes sense by the way- please let me know if I’m going in circles/if I’m wrong/if I’m being unclear, and I’m open to discussion because I’m still searching for answers myself.
Basically, what it sounds like your classmate is saying is that “Because God is love; then if we feel like something is love then why is it wrong?” A good argument to present to your classmate would be this: Bring up the issue of rape and ask her if she thinks THAT is love! (hopefully she/he will say no). Well, would it be loving then for that person to be allowed to continue in their wrong ways without punishment or a warning of the punishment to come? No! maybe they “feel” like its love, but in reality it isn’t! Just because someone “thinks” its love doesn’t mean it is. Just because God is love, it doens’t mean that any idea humans get of love is permissible. She/he might say that rape and homosexuality are two different things. ANd yeah, she’s totally right, but if she’s making the argument I stated in the beginning, that love is based on whatever someone desires to make it, then a rapist could make the same argument as a gay person. So then, with that argument, anything that people call “love” is permissible. Why is one different than another? I hope this makes sense…. =)
In order for me to answer your question, @acha648 I would need to understand what you mean by there isn’t any difference because there is clearly a difference between man and woman.
I just watched a video with Ray Comfort (by Living Waters) on this last night. Basically, if we know or meet someone that is gay, we don’t even need to bring it up if they don’t. Here’s what I mean (I’m basically summarizing the video, so points aren’t really mine):
If someone some to you with a sign up chart for a club that supports LGBT stuff, you would politely decline. If the person asks you why, you don’t need to say anything like “well, I believe” or “I think…”, because it’s not what WE think, it’s what the BIBLE says. You could then share with them that it’s wrong according to GOD and show them 1 Cor. 6:9-10.
If you have friends/family that are gay and (or course) haven’t come to Christ in faith, then you just need to share the gospel with them. Bringing up the fact that homosexuality is a sin will only make them defensive – they have to be humbled to understand. Basically, Ray Comfort like to have people admit they are sinners by asking if they’ve ever lied, stolen, blasphemed, fornicated, or committed adultery in their heart. They admit they are lying, thieving, fornicators, etc. They have to be humbled by understanding that they are sinners and then realize what that means for them eternally before homosexuality should come into the mix (then you would share 1 Co. 6:9-10).
Here’s the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGu9IaV-CKY
This might be helpful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGu9IaV-CKY
I think you would enjoy this video. It’s easy to understand and Biblically sound: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGu9IaV-CKY
Hey you’re back! 😀
‘kay, i won’t 😉
I’m finding that This DQ, “How to lovingly speak up for the truth about marriage?” turned into, “What is the truth about marriage?” Foundations are critical in this day and age. From the Bible, it’s clear God created marriage to be between one man and one women for life. I believe this firmly. That doesn’t mean i’m intolerant. God loves homosexuals, and so do i. We should be doing everything we can do to show our fellow believers who live in the sin of homosexuality that there is HOPE! It’s a lie to believe they are truly happy, whether or not they say they are “born gay”. We can love, we can care, and we can help, but we CANNOT accept homosexuality as a way to live. That doesn’t mean don’t be friendly. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t interact with gays. it just means i think the Bible is clear that homosexuality is wrong. It’s not a crime to disagree. (though it seems it may be becoming so.)
I apologize, i know this must appear rather blunt. If you have any comments about what i said, please let me know 🙂
I haven’t talked to you in a while. How have you been?
In reply to both @disqus_oMHOgFTIn3:disqus and @disqus_nDS32T0phc:disqus (@EmmaRuns4Him:disqus I haven’t had a chance to watch the video yet but I’m looking forward to it. Thanks for sharing)
Taylor, I understand what you are saying about addressing sin in a friend’s life. I also wouldn’t want my friends to ignore a sin in my life and just let me walk in it. I don’t know how I would point out to a friend that their sexuality is a sin though. To them it isn’t a sin at all. To them its something beautiful and a part of life. And doesn’t God say He gives us the desires of our hearts? (Psalm 37:4) I understand that its not natural and not the way that God has created us but many other things, aside from LGBT rights and such, have evolved away from God’s creation into something corrupt. That doesn’t mean the people are evil though, as I am sure you agree, they are just living in a sin that they cannot escape. IF they are born that way (again, without watching the video) then it wouldn’t help anything if we pointed out their sin if there is no way of coming out of it. In fact it might hurt them.
Going back to the verse, God gives us the desires of our hearts, meaning He loves us enough to give us what we want as long as it doesn’t harm us. I have seen many happy, God fearing & loving homosexual couples.
I am afraid I have to disagree with you on that God’s goal is not our happiness. He wants a personal relationship with us, His creation. He wants us to be happy and joyful with Him in all things and He wants us to be with Him.
Abby, I agree with you about how the SC decision meddled in other’s lives as well. It is sad what happened and absolutely wrong. However, what you said about the Bible’s definition of marriage, I only agree with to a point. Sodom and Gomorrah is a good example and I understand what you are trying to say, but times change, laws change, societies change and that means we have to live our lives differently. Things that were considered wrong in society at one point (i.e. women wearing pants) are not wrong at all in today’s world (women wear shorts with no problems). Thats the best example I can think of at the moment.
I agree that the Church plays a huge part in the lives of believers and the we should absolutely have fellowship and mentorship from fellow believers. I think its hugely important in the walk of a Christian. When I said the Church I meant more like friends who are believers and society. God uses the Church, definitely, but there’s a fine line between hearing God as a Church and making our own decisions based on our own judgments.
I hope none of this has come across as rude. I also appreciate different points of views and a friendly debate. I love how this blog allows REAL discussions and everyone is so civil and kind. Thanks for y’alls input 🙂
Hey, Sadie! You’re not coming across rudely at all; in fact, I really appreciate the politeness you displayed in your response. I hope my own comment comes across with the same attitude, because that is how it is meant.
My point of my statement that God’s ultimate goal is not my happiness is that God has a higher aim than my personal happiness. For example, it could be argued that I might be much happier if I quit resisting my own temptations in order to simply do what pleased me. My natural drive is not to stay pure until marriage. My natural desires tell me that I should just have fun during these years while I’m unmarried.
But yet I don’t give in to those desires because happiness is not my goal, nor do I think it’s God’s goal for me. Happiness at the expense of my obedience to Christ is not true happiness nor even a true relationships with Christ. If we claim to love Him, we must obey His commandments, which at times includes giving up what I want at a particular moment in favor of what is the right thing. Does that make sense?
Happiness cannot be the goal of the Christian life. I’m not happiest when I’m struggling with temptation or wrestling with sin. It’s much easier and often if I’m honest more enjoyable to simply roll over and give in. That may be what makes me happiest for the moment. So I don’t, and I’m fairly confident you don’t either, live your Christian life with happiness as the goal.
In regard to your statement that they can’t help it and they are living in a sin “they can’t escape”, I don’t believe that there is any sin inescapable. Jesus died to make us free from our slavery to sin, so no sin is too powerful for its hold on us to be broken. Furthermore, let’s go back to the same example I used before. My natural drive is not to remain pure until I get married, which is what the Bible clearly teaches. Therefore, I have to deny my natural drive in favor of being obedient to the One I claim is my Lord. I believe a homosexual has to do the same thing.
Lastly, your statement that they don’t see it as a sin is a reasonable argument. And obviously, if they disagree with you on interpreting those passages of Scripture, there’s only so much you can do! I certainly don’t advocate you hammering the topic with them, or even initiating the topic with them unprovoked.
Please read this in the attitude it’s intended. I don’t mean it rudely or comabatively, simply as possible points you may not have considered. Thank you for taking the time to have this discussion with me. I learn new things every time I’m able to discuss with someone!
Oh, and I did want to touch on your reference to Ps. 37:4. If you look at the verse in the context, directly before his promise to give you the desires of your heart, David says that this applies to those who “Delight themselves also in the Lord”. Then directly after the promise is “Commit thy way unto the Lord.” I guess my point is that someone living in sin is most likely not “committing their way unto the Lord.”
But that’s not really my point. I think we probably can agree that this only applies if the thing I want is within the will of God. For example, let’s look at some of the less popular promises in the Bible, such as that men will revile and curse us as Christians. I don’t particularly want that to happen, and that certainly isn’t one of most people’s desires of their hearts. Yet it is still a promise of what will occur.
So, we receive the “desires of hearts” only if it is within the will of God that we receive them. If the desire of my heart is a free license to sin, I do not believe God grants that, because it is outside His will. Does that make sense?
I just had something to add to the reference to Psalm 37:4 “Take delight in the Lord, and he will give you the desires of your heart.” If we delight in the Lord, what is our heart’s desire? The Lord! Just an extra thought!
This discussion is honestly so heated and prominent in our culture that it has set my head spinning. I do not have any homosexual friends (or acquaintances yet for that matter) with whom but I would be able to try this out on. However, I do think humility is a big big part of how we must interact with anyone in any kind of sin. The uniqueness of the gay movement is in its attempt to force everyone around to accept it and raise it to the same level of credibility as marriage between a man and a woman. I believe this is very very sinful and on level with redefining live-in relationships to the same hight. Aside from that though it’s just another form of cancerous sin.
Ok here’s the skinny though: In God’s eyes I have no more hope without Christ’s covering than the most flaming gay, bi, lesbian man or woman out there. I have sinned in many many ways and I would hate to stand before my maker without His cleansing of my sins. I would equally hate seeing it happen to any gay person out there. Our only Hope is the one who sacrificed himself and calls us to abandon our fleshly desires (ranging from lust to envy to murder) and find true life in him. It’s better than any form of “happiness” we could come up with whether straight or not. Men marrying men to fulfill lusts is definitely not part of that road along with me fulfilling my own sin nature in any way shape or form. For what it’s worth, that would my best response to someone in that situation…
Also Ravi Zacharias has a great video on the topic here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx7ALlEtg2c
Thanks, Megan! That is a great way to phrase the “love” dilemma. I appreciate you taking the time to help me and respond- God bless!
Nat, this is fantastic! Thank you so much for helping me out. You make some very useful and strong points in this response. Thanks again, and have a wonderful, blessed day!
Agreed, Abby. Hate the sin, but not the sinner. Thanks for the wonderful input! God bless!
I love Ray Comfort! Thank you, Emma, for bringing this video to my attention. I appreciate the time and effort you put gave in order to help little ole me out. Loved the video and thanks again! 🙂
Well isn’t being gay or lesbo a sin. Isn’t lusting a sin. Isn’t judging a sin. A sin is a sin. We all do them even though we are not suppose to. We chose to be sinners even though we do not to be.
Just saying, judging isn’t a sin….Ken Ham says “Now, people often take Matthew 7:1 out
of context and claim we are not to judge—but when you read the whole
passage carefully, Christ is actually warning believers against making
judgments in a hypocritical or condemning manner. Jesus also stated in John 7:24,
“Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous
judgment.” Notice the Lord’s command to judge. But before we make a
judgment, we must make sure we are judging righteously from God’s Word
and not relying on our own opinion.”
And hey, I see this is your first comment…welcome to the Reb! =D
One thing you can say is just that you believe the Bible, the Bible says it’s wrong, and that God doesn’t call things wrong for no reason. I don’t think arguments are really going to be helpful because they’ll say that the data is skewed or say they know a gay couple who are really good parents or mention a gay friend or even say “you don’t think I can be a good parent?” I think the best position might just be that you have an entirely different perspective on this issue due to your faith, and you have that position because you love people and don’t want them doing things that are bad for them. Well, assuming you can say that last part. Just my $0.02
Yeah, yeah, yeah! You hit like every point, and I wish that more people had this perspective. Though maybe they do, and just haven’t stated it so clearly. I especially appreciate your last point about helping Christians who struggle with this. Thank you. 🙂 It’s sort of a weird place to be in, culturally…
Good to hear! 🙂
Thank you for saying that! 🙂 I’m glad things are going pretty well for you. I’m sorry you have to deal with those situations, but then again it sounds like you’re facing it with a great attitude, so good for you! I hope everything works out. 🙂
It was amazing! I’ve been once before, but I was too young to remember much, so it was great to be able to experience it again. 🙂
Aw! Well, I feel honored. =)
Yup! 😀 Great to see you! How’ve you been?
Yeah, it’s been a while! I’m doing pretty well. I disappeared from the Reb to deal with some difficult life stuff, but things are doing better now. What about you?
I would love to go there someday myself! 😉
Thanks! I hope everything turns out well, too. But I must admit, my attitude has not been all that great for at least some of this process. 😉 But I hope I am learning.
I hope you have the opportunity to! Have you traveled much?
Aw, I think attitude is almost always a learning process. I know that I for one rarely go into difficult situations with the right attitude, but hopefully I come out of them with one!
Not a ton, but I have gone to the Dominican Republic for a missions trip and then to different places in the states mostly on the east side, but I would love to go see more of the world if I ever get the money too. 😉
I’m making it, and God is good! How ’bout yourself?
I have been pretty busy. I am now done with major plans for the summer. I only have one more thing planed for this summer. Do you have things planned for the summer?
of course there is
but most Christians do not believe so
and get men to be homemakers
and women to be providers
or live in a 50/50 genderless marriage…
if women get to pretend Titus 2 does not apply in our culture
Gays get to pretend Romans 1 does not apply…
actually churches that believe in biblical gender roles are in the minority
and I don’t count churches that tell men a real servant leader does homemaking so his wife can work
as biblical…
My older brother is deciding to become gender-neutral. Meaning he will pair up with a girl or a guy. He is also changing his name to a gender-neutral name as well. I am unsure how to talked to him about Christ without waging a war. Does anyone have any ideas?
Welcome to the Reb, haley!
God wants us to love everyone. It is what he calls us to do. But God designed marriage to be between a man and woman. I heard from my pastor once that people are finding their identity in their sexually orientation. They need to find there identity in God. We need to help them figure out where their identity is. I don’t know if this helps at all.
Welcome, Haley!
I hadn’t thought about the homosexuality in Sodom and Gomorrah affecting all its people, not just the homosexual ones. Thanks for saying that!
I think another verse that would support this case is Mat 3:7:
Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
We should remove the speck in our brother’s eye, but we shouldn’t be hypocritical when we do, then it’s a sin.
Good point! =)
Just give him the gospel. The type of sin he is choosing is one he (and others) will be/are very protective and sensitive about. He simply needs to know and understand that he is a sinner who needs a just and loving Savior. You only need to bring up the type of sin that all have committed (lying, probably stealing, lust of heart, maybe hating someone, maybe fornication, blasphemy). Look up Ray Comfort with Living Waters for a picture of how that works. His witnessing videos really help, and they have a new movie coming out specifically about LGBT people. Also, PRAY! 🙂
Ray Comforts “Audacity” is out, and it is worth every penny. I have seen it, and give it a 5 star rating (for teens and above because of the topic matter and action scenes).
It addresses this issue very well.
Why, hello there! Welcome to the Rebelution 🙂
Before I post this, just know that I posted a similar reply earlier that disappeared, so if somehow that shows up, just read this one, the other says pretty much the same thing.
You don’t at all come across as rude, and I agree that it is nice that we can have a civil debate on things that really matter.
I understand being hesitant to correct sin in fellow believers. I’m a person who doesn’t like to risk losing friendships, and have probably put up with things I shouldn’t have because of that. Before I say anything more, I would like to firmly establish that if an LGBT person is a true believer, being LGBT won’t prevent them from going to heaven. But, if your friends are true believers, they should want to do what pleases God. Once pointed out to them that being homosexual is a sin, they should want to please God by repentance. Not just an apology, but turning from their sin to God’s way. Being homosexual is a sin, whether they see it as one or not. The loving thing to do for them is to correct them. It’s what God tells us to do.
I would also like to point out that, without Christ, all people are evil. I, by myself, am a wicked evil human being, following my own fleshly desires, but in Christ I am new creation, the old things are passed away, I have become new.
@disqus_oMHOgFTIn3:disqus pretty much summed up the way Ps. 37:4 should be taken. Our happiness is not God’s ultimate goal. What if a married man decides he loves another woman? The only way he can be “happy” is to commit adultery which is clearly a sin. God wants our happiness, yes, but he, as the creator of the universe, also knows what is best for us. This life on earth is but a moment, our earthly lives are just a blink in the span of eternity. The ultimate reward is not union with another flawed human being, it is when God says “Well done, my good and faithful servant.” If I have to give up earthly pleasures that last for but a moment, I would much rather have my savior, creator, all-powerful God be pleased with me than have earthly pleasures. It’s difficult to keep this in mind when you’re being tempted. I give in to temptation more than I’d like to admit. It’s not easy, pleasing God, and I struggle all the time with it.
I have to disagree with what you said about Sodom and Gomorrah. Yes, time changes. Society changes. God stays the same yesterday, today and forever. God never cared about women wearing pants. God doesn’t care if I dye my hair blue. I may be looked down upon it some conservative Christian societies, yes, but God looks not at the outward appearance but at the heart. Homosexuality is an issue of the heart. No, we don’t have to follow the laws of the Sabbath, no one gets stoned for sinning and we don’t have to go to the temple, make burnt offerings, not eat pork, or not have certain meats with milk. All of those things were ways to make our sins right with God, which Jesus did on the cross. But we still follow the 10 Commandments, and we still go to church because it is pleasing to God.
If someone is a true Christian, they should want to obey and please him. Lets say for example, a child and their parents. Your parents will love and care for you, even if you are the most rebellious child. They will still feed you, clothe you and let you live in their house. But, if someone were to say that they loved their parents, and still did things their parents said specifically not to, after being corrected, would you believe that they really, actually loved their parents? Their parents (if they are good parents) will always love and care for their child. A child can’t repay their parents for this, but they can show their gratitude by, at the very least, obeying their parents.
I realized what you meant by “the Church” and meant what I said in that context. In many of Paul’s letters he says it is important to disciple fellow believers. Again, Galatians 6:1 Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted.
James 5:16 “Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.”
Hebrews 10:24-25 “and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.”
My dad is a pastor, and often reminds the congregation that you can’t be a believer on your own. Fellowship with believers is extremely important, and God speaks to us through his people, even if they haven’t gone to seminary or whatever.
Regarding what you said about the “fine line between hearing God as a Church and making our own decisions based on our own judgments”: We should make decisions based on what God tells us. Through his people or otherwise. Our decisions shouldn’t be based on our sinful, human judgement. Our lives would be a total train wreck if we did that. My human judgement tells me to be “cool”, or socially acceptable, who cares what God says. My human judgement tells me to disobey my parents, it’s easier, right? My human judgement tells me to do what I think is easy, whether or not God is pleased by it. I often fall victim of my human judgment, and it’s something I’m not proud of.
Again, I don’t want to come across as rude, and this discussion has given me a lot of things to think about, which I appreciate.
That’s a really good point, and it said a lot, while being very short. I don’t seem to have that skill! 🙂
The whole LGBT ordeal is so saddening and very concerning. When we address the LGBT issue, we need to realize that none of us are without sin. Therefore, no man is “better” or “more holy” than another. It’s important that the ones we are addressing realize that we are no better than them, and are in just as much in need of a saviour as anybody! Like someone else said: Humility. It’s sickening to see two men or two women together, but they are still men and women. They deserve our love. They don’t need to hear how terrible they are from us. Our job is to love and show Jesus to them. It’s God’s job to change hearts.
Thanks
Well all I’m saying is a sin is a sin we all do them. We shouldn’t criticize them when we sin also
This sounds like a very difficult situation. I don’t know your brother, so I can’t give you advice, (what @EmmaRuns4Him:disqus said pretty much summed up what I would say) but I can and will pray for you!
I was just thinking about the evolution of this question!
I’d just like to put out there that I believe people can be “born gay”. But I think many people who claim to have been born gay were not. This is a tool of the enemy, but people with this genetic disposition can please God too. (I think I’ve mentioned this before) There are Christian men who feel like they could never be with a woman, but have never been with a man in order to please God.
Also, you didn’t come across as blunt, but I agree this is difficult to talk about without seeming inconsiderate!
Okay, I agree with most of your points except the part where you talk about Donald Trump. I do agree that we need to practice what we preach. But we will never be perfect. Some of us will make the same mistakes over and over again. So maybe Trump hasn’t been practicing what he preaches. But the Lord can absolutely change hearts. There are many people in the church who are divorced and their hearts have been changed. But they can’t exactly go back and marry their former husbands/wives again, so it’s more obvious to us that they have sinned. The thing is, we all sin, but the Lord looks at the heart rather than the outward things that humans see. So as He has forgiven us, we should forgive others around us and give them grace even when it’s obvious that they’ve messed up. Sorry if that’s a little confusing…
Your sister in Christ,
Leah
I understand your position, but even he acknowledged his own hypocrisy, if you can call it that. “When asked how Trump reconciles the notion of “traditional marriage” with his personal history of being married three times and divorced twice, Trump conceded the point. “I have a good wife now,” Trump said. “My (first) two wives were very good. And I don’t blame them, but I was working … 22 hours a day.””
And in a different recent interview: “He said, ‘You know what, George, I just came from a gay marriage.’ And he told me, ‘They are good friends of mine, it was a beautiful marriage. They’re wonderful friends.'”
I probably shouldn’t have named anyone specific in my post, and will edit to reflect that. But I really don’t think he regrets his divorces, or has a Biblical backing to his beliefs about marriage, based on these comments.
There were too many comments for me to read through just yet, but so far they look really good! I think pretty much what everyone else does: we need to love these people just like any other nonbeliever. We need to not overlook their sin, but we do need to remember that we’re all sinners. We need to let them know that we disagree, but do it in a humble way. I go to a public school in a very liberal area so I deal with this a lot. People say “why are people homophobic? That’s so wrong. I can’t believe you could be so mean.” Even supposed Christians get upset when you say that homosexuality is a sin. I think the main thing that we as Christians need to work on is showing that we aren’t homophobic. We aren’t SCARED of homosexuals, we RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE. So don’t be afraid to be friends with these people, or to share your beliefs. But I would say to be very careful with taking about their sin in that you shouldn’t make their declared sexual orientation the only thing you talk about. God sees all sins the same.
Don’t forget that we are supposed to live without the fear of man, and to entirely adhere to God’s laws privately and publicly. Of course not setting aside safety or diplomacy, it is important that we are willing and ready to boldly stand up for our beliefs. Never be apologetic for the truths God has declared!
There was a family in the shop i work at and it was a mom and two teen age kids. one was a girl and the other was gender-alternative. Now in our shop we are not ashamed of our faith, a couple Gideon bibles in the office and the 10 Commandments on the wall. anyway they needed a used tire (it was about $30) for there car and i just gave it away. i told them i was paying it forward that day and for them to have a good trip. they knew i was different but i wasent about to call them out for something i disagree about. then a couple days later my boss handed me a box, it was from them and it had cookies and a thank you note. I think we need to show more than normal kindness, especially to the lgbt community. and remember, hurt people tend to hurt people. many people are hurt so they hurt.
Hey Taylor, totally off topic but my phone won’t let me access Revive, and I wanted to tell you: the conversation we were talking about went great! Thank you so much for praying.
That’s awesome! 🙂 C’mon, Revive, switch back on so I can know details!!! Anyway, hopefully it will come back on soon.
God’s love isn’t about what “feels good.” God’s love is about sacrifice. It’s bloody, dirty, and painful–it’s Christ on the cross, dying for me. Our culture has taken the word “love” and has reduced it to WHATEVER feels good, warm, and fuzzy. God’s love is defined by giving; man’s broken, sinful “love” is defined by taking.
And this is what God has called us to do: reflect His giving and sacrificial love to these hurting, lost people.
Most of my life, I looked down on gays. It wasn’t until the recent Supreme Court decision I reevaluated what I believed. Now I understand WHO gays are: broken, sinful humans in need of a Savior–the same as me.
We should love everyone with Christ’s sacrificial love–but we should not love their sin. And loving the people does not mean accepting or “tolerating” the sin.
That’s cool! Are there any specific places you want to visit?
Good to hear! 🙂 I’ve had some ups and downs lately, but I’m doing pretty well at the moment. So, has anything interesting happened on the Reb lately?
Cool! What’s the one more thing? I’m pretty much like you. Did VBS, went on vacation, and in a week I’m going to a youth conference, so I’m looking forward to that a lot!
I’m going to six flags. 🙂
Okay wow, I have a lot to think about! (Which is a good thing, thank you) To be honest, I wasn’t completely firm in my opinion because I didn’t understand very much about the subject. I’ve been learning as I go and I’ve learned a whole lot from this discussion!
I still don’t know exactly what to do about my christian homosexual friends. I know God has called me to be a light in their life and to love them but if I brought up anything they would consider “against gays” or what we would say is pointing out a sin, then they would turn away and theres a good chance I might not see them again. I’ll pray about it.
You’ve all shed light on this subject for me and the only thing I disagree with is God’s ultimate goal of our happiness. All that you said about natural desires happiness not being the goal of a christian life I do agree with. However, those natural desires are not fulfilling and do not bring real happiness. The happiness I’m talking about is the joy that comes with realizing we are children of God and having a personal relationship with Him. Its a joy not of this world, but in it. God’s ultimate goal is a relationship with us and relationship=happiness.
Thanks again for all the input!!
Yep! I’ll be PMing you as soon as I can.
Do you have enough answers, or do you want me to throw in my opinion?
Sadie, just follow what God leads you to do. I don’t know your friends, so my input is certainly not inspired!
Thank you for the discussion. It was a pleasure!
All are welcome! 🙂
It may be a little off-topic, but I just wanted to say this: in confronting a counterfeit, your best weapon is always the real thing. In an age when the concept of marriage (as opposed to mere “partnership”) is being largely twisted and ignored (and that not only by homosexuals), nothing “speaks up for the truth” more than a real and living marriage, one in which God – not personal pleasure – is at the centre of the relationship. I think the idea of a sacrificial commitment – which should be at the core of any real marriage – is so radical that it can challenge people’s perspectives even before any words are said. And, even though most of us on this site are not married at this stage, I think we can still do this in the way we address this issue. Sometimes I think we can inspire others with the truth not by attacking same-sex marriage at first, but rather by sharing our own view of marriage as a beautiful and symbolic institution. I believe that since this is so much richer than the popular view of marriage as merely a personal preference, people might see it and think, “Wow. There really is something more to this than I thought.”
Thanks! 😀 I dont know if my friend understood waht i said, but I was happy ’cause I said about the One Truth!
Haha. Thanks!
Hahaha. Thanks! I want to go to USA to learn more. Come to Brazil! Portuguese is not so hard!
Hey, I’d love to, man!
I’m glad you’re doing well right now 🙂 Hmmm, i can’t think of anything completely out of the ordinary or interesting that’s happened. We’re just tryin’ to stay rebelutionary 😉
Great!! When u want, come here! Haha
You will always love your brother just let him know kindly that you just disagree and you will always be there for him. Don’t agree with him just agree to disagree
Yes, there are a few places that I would love to go to one day. I would love to go to Holland and Scotland in particular and I also have some interest in Africa as a possible mission field some day. As far as places in America, I would like to go to Texas, Oregon, Idaho, and Arizona at least, but probably other places too. 😉 What about you? Have you done much traveling? Are there places you would really like to go?
“Hurt people tend to hurt people. Many people are hurt so they hurt.” That is so true! Thanks for sharing that. A good perspective to have in mind when one is not treating another well.
And now you know… the rest of the story. 🙂 (I think that’s a tagline from a talk radio show…)
I have a analogy for this topic, I would love to know if it works in other minds other than mine. If you had a child doing something wrong that would hurt them, would you yell at them and shame them or even just completely turn away? Or would you address the situation in love and in truth? I feel like so many people feel like they either have to wipe there hands clean from them or except it as right? I think the way we rally together to speak truth into the lives of drug users or people trapped in prostitution, should be remembered and someone should consider this a new cause to rally for. Only we need are heart to be in a place of doing it to redeem this word “Love” what do you guys think?
I think you’re absolutely right, of course we need to love them, and we can’t “wipe our hands clean” from them. I like your child analogy- yelling and shaming doesn’t do anything but hurt them, and no-one would ever think of ignoring a child. Your analogy does make sense to me 🙂
And I’ve never actually thought of speaking truth as redeeming the word “Love”, I think that’s really interesting. I’m just wondering, the thing with drug users is that many of them are open to love and change, because many of them are broken and have turned to drugs as a solution. With gay people, they’re not broken, and many of them get insulted when they’re told that their love is wrong, because love is such a personal and emotional thing, and they see you as judgmental and intrusive. How do we speak to them in love and truth though? (genuine question- not rhetorical)
Very cool! Which one? I’ve been to the Six Flags over Georgia.
Haha, good to hear. Hopefully you’ll see me around more often! 🙂 I’ve missed you guys.
It’s in California. I think. It’s Six Flags Discovery Kingdom, in Valao. I don’t think that I spelt that right.
We missed you too! Glad to have you back. Have a wonderful Lord’s Day 🙂
You too! =)
My dad and I were talking about this yesterday, and the thing is Man thinks so highly of himself he wants to be his own god — what’s more is he loves himself so much he dislikes the other gender and wants to marry someone who looks just like himself. Totally agree with @samgiddy:disqus
Well then we can’t ever correct anyone until we are perfect. A better way of going about it is feeling free to point out sin because we see it in ourselves. It should make us miserable that other people are sinning… The only truly loving thing to do is correct sin, because the wages of sin is death. That said, we all do sin, and we are all on a level playing field. The difference between us and the unbeliever is that we realize sin is sin.
welcome to the reb!
Thanks for saying this, I totally forgot that I hadn’t replied to Haley! And I agree with what you said 100%! =)
“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.” Matthew 18:15-17
So we can’t ignore sin in ourselves or others, we’re supposed to correct it. =)
*cringes in anticipation of reactions, but jumps in anyway* This is talking about your brother. Your brother in Christ, is my interpretation… But either way, unless you’re talking to a gay person who’s your biological brother or your brother in Christ, this reference doesn’t seem to apply?
Well of course we can’t expect unsaved people to act like saved people. But if someone does come to Christ, they need to know that homosexuality is a sin. Make sense?? =)
Ok, but let’s imagine that eating cherries is a sin. (It’s a far stretch, but let’s just imagine, shall we?) I’m a nonChristian who meets up with you somewhere, and you lead me to Christ. Now, you led me to Him; does it matter so much if I know that I shouldn’t eat cherries?
Hmmm? I’m confused. =P
If you were a habitual cherry eater, then yeah I would tell you that that was a sin and that you needed to repent.
That being said, cheeerrrriiiiessss……mmmmmmmmm…… XD
Right. But I’m saying, if I came to Christ without knowing that I’ve got to knock off on the cherries, I’m still saved, right? And you might not even have to tell me that eating cherries is a sin. I mean, if I’m for real, God’s gonna show me that eating cherries is wrong.
And yes, cherries are so delicious!!!
I can only imagine how this will show up in somebody’s Disqus Digest! Hehehe
I think you’re right on, Banner of Joy!
Hey Sadie, just to let you know I’ll be praying for you and your friends. 🙂
Somethin’ like that….
I’m still confused about the point you’re trying to make, though. =P
Praying for you:)
This did show up in my Disqus Digests, ironically enough. So I checked it out. I agree with you, MFJ. Jesus saves sinners, and we can’t wait to become perfect before we decide to get saved. It doesn’t work that way. By believing on Jesus, we are saved. The Holy Spirit’s work in our hearts convicts us of our sin. If we understand what Jesus has done for us, we won’t have the desire to live in sin any longer as well. 🙂
Ironic! Did it look weird? 🙂 Thanks! You’ve said most of what I was trying to communicate, but in only one comment. How did you do it?!
Haha! Well I’m not sure what the exact comment that I saw was, but I think I understood the point you were trying to make.
How did I do it? *overexaggeratedly shrugs* I dunno. I just like the Bible and I like to summarize it so I can understand it. 😉
I don’t see anything not being applied in our culture, unless you are referring to the young women supposed to be busy at home. If so please respond @acha648, I am still studying in the bible to figure out what you are saying.
Thanks
When they first introduce themselves as gay, let it slide. They don’t know you or your religion, so it’s better to stay respectful until they try ti push you in a way you’re uncomfortable with. If you want to minister to them, don’t lecture. Show them with your actions that you’re a Christian, and if they ask about why you did or didn’t do this one thing, then you can explain why.
You can’t. You can’t lovingly deny rights.
That seems highly manipulative.
Huh. I’ve listened to what you had to say and all I’m hearing is that you are way too interested in matters that don’t concern you even slightly. Are you in the closet perhaps? Eh maybe not. But I’m just an inhuman heathen anyway…
Then you will extend an acceptance of rights to marry? How kind.
Nobody wants you to be afraid. You also aren’t relevant to the legal definition of marriage. Stop pretending your at war.
You disagree with what. That gay people exist? Or that they have a right to financial security and partnership with the people they love?
If we are all sinners than what difference is it to allow the same rights to gay people as to straight people. Also, there’s something wrong with your gag reflex if you only are sickened by gay people kissing. Public kissing in general is gross. And what are you expecting to change, their orientation? Or are you the sort to demand unwavering celebacy to all gay poeple?
I thought it was highly bigoted and hateful. EIther Comfort is a heinous homophobe or he’s gay. Both are possible.
You just think that the gay couple you adore shouldn’t love each other?
Tumblr sucks. Maybe if Christians hadn’t held such a choking monopoly on gender issues people wouldn’t want to tear it down so fully? Just my opinion.
Excuse me please don’t talk like that about supposed friends. Who on earth are they hurting?
So it’s okay to hate gay people as long as Jesus does too. Women too. Slavery is okay though.
Yes. Their life is a sin. One they can’t escape. You don’t stop being gay. It’s not possible.
Why consider them notable at all if everybody sins? The sin of eternal commitment being done “wrong” is hardly anywhere near as sinful as your gagging at them doing so.
Marriage is a legal binding of combined finance and assets. Nothing more.
Don’t EVER bring up that you hate that their gay. NEVER. You could drive them to suicide with that.
It is categorically real love. A God against such a thing is anti-love. He is for arangements of marriage divorced from love. It would be one thing if the act were destructive like the inhuman things often compared but it’s not. Consenting adults are consenting adults. If two men who are very close want to get married and settle down together comfortably a God who opposes somethign so simple is evil.
Lol I never said any of those things. I don’t condone hating gay people, hating women, nor do I condone slavery.
In a way, you’re right. Before we are saved, we’re slaves to sin, and can’t stop sinning (whether the sin we struggle with is homosexuality or anything else). But if we repent of our sins and believe that Jesus died on the cross for our sins, then He will give us grace so that we can stop sinning and obey Him. That includes homosexuality – it is possible to turn from that sin and there are many Christians who have. =)
Then you DO diverge from the bible.
But your bible does. In exodus. Were you not aware?
How are gay people hurting people?
LOL no.
It does not, where do you believe it does?
21 “Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. 2 When you buy a Hebrew slave,[a] he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. 3 If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. 4 If
his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the
wife and her children shall be her master’s, and he shall go out alone. 5 But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ 6 then his master shall bring him to God,
and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master
shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave
forever.
7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. 8 If she does not please her master, who has designated her[b]
for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He shall have no right
to sell her to a foreign people, since he has broken faith with her. 9 If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. 10 If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, or her marital rights. 11 And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out for nothing, without payment of money.
12 “Whoever strikes a man so that he dies shall be put to death. 13 But if he did not lie in wait for him, but God let him fall into his hand, then I will appoint for you a place to which he may flee. 14 But if a man willfully attacks another to kill him by cunning, you shall take him from my altar, that he may die.
15 “Whoever strikes his father or his mother shall be put to death.
16 “Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death.
17 “Whoever curses[c] his father or his mother shall be put to death.
18 “When men quarrel and one strikes the other with a stone or with his fist and the man does not die but takes to his bed, 19 then
if the man rises again and walks outdoors with his staff, he who struck
him shall be clear; only he shall pay for the loss of his time, and
shall have him thoroughly healed.
20 “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. 21 But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.
22 “When
men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come
out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined,
as the woman’s husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judges determine. 23 But if there is harm,[d] then you shall pay life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
26 “When a man strikes the eye of his slave, male or female, and destroys it, he shall let the slave go free because of his eye. 27 If he knocks out the tooth of his slave, male or female, he shall let the slave go free because of his tooth.
28 “When an ox gores a man or a woman to death, the ox shall be stoned, and its flesh shall not be eaten, but the owner of the ox shall not be liable. 29 But
if the ox has been accustomed to gore in the past, and its owner has
been warned but has not kept it in, and it kills a man or a woman, the
ox shall be stoned, and its owner also shall be put to death. 30 If a ransom is imposed on him, then he shall give for the redemption of his life whatever is imposed on him. 31 If it gores a man’s son or daughter, he shall be dealt with according to this same rule. 32 If the ox gores a slave, male or female, the owner shall give to their master thirty shekels[e] of silver, and the ox shall be stoned.
You should read your bible.
21 “Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. 2 When you buy a Hebrew slave,[a] he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. 3 If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. 4 If
his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the
wife and her children shall be her master’s, and he shall go out alone. 5 But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ 6 then his master shall bring him to God,
and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master
shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave
forever.
7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. 8 If she does not please her master, who has designated her[b]
for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He shall have no right
to sell her to a foreign people, since he has broken faith with her. 9 If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. 10 If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, or her marital rights. 11 And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out for nothing, without payment of money.
12 “Whoever strikes a man so that he dies shall be put to death. 13 But if he did not lie in wait for him, but God let him fall into his hand, then I will appoint for you a place to which he may flee. 14 But if a man willfully attacks another to kill him by cunning, you shall take him from my altar, that he may die.
15 “Whoever strikes his father or his mother shall be put to death.
16 “Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death.
17 “Whoever curses[c] his father or his mother shall be put to death.
18 “When men quarrel and one strikes the other with a stone or with his fist and the man does not die but takes to his bed, 19 then
if the man rises again and walks outdoors with his staff, he who struck
him shall be clear; only he shall pay for the loss of his time, and
shall have him thoroughly healed.
20 “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. 21 But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.
22 “When
men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come
out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined,
as the woman’s husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judges determine. 23 But if there is harm,[d] then you shall pay life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
26 “When a man strikes the eye of his slave, male or female, and destroys it, he shall let the slave go free because of his eye. 27 If he knocks out the tooth of his slave, male or female, he shall let the slave go free because of his tooth.
28 “When an ox gores a man or a woman to death, the ox shall be stoned, and its flesh shall not be eaten, but the owner of the ox shall not be liable. 29 But
if the ox has been accustomed to gore in the past, and its owner has
been warned but has not kept it in, and it kills a man or a woman, the
ox shall be stoned, and its owner also shall be put to death. 30 If a ransom is imposed on him, then he shall give for the redemption of his life whatever is imposed on him. 31 If it gores a man’s son or daughter, he shall be dealt with according to this same rule. 32 If the ox gores a slave, male or female, the owner shall give to their master thirty shekels[e] of silver, and the ox shall be stoned.
Do you not believe that denying gay people the right to marry is expressing hatred towards them? Explain why.
Why would any gay person want to turn away from their loved ones for God? That would make him the most insipid person to involve themselves in these people’s lives.
You can’t be against homosexuality without being hateful towards it. It’s equally too unaffecting as it is built into their brains. Imagine if you were told that loving a.. (ur a girl) Man in all cases is completely unaccepted and you will be considered evil for it. THat’s the possition we are in.
Christian’s are stupid. They think nothing can come from nothing. Put that up your pipe and smoke it. |:(
Hmm maybe I can give him some measly respect. I still hate him but at least he’s no homophobe.
21 “Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. 2 When you buy a Hebrew slave,[a] he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. 3 If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. 4 If
his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the
wife and her children shall be her master’s, and he shall go out alone. 5 But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ 6 then his master shall bring him to God,
and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master
shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave
forever.
7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. 8 If she does not please her master, who has designated her[b]
for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He shall have no right
to sell her to a foreign people, since he has broken faith with her. 9 If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. 10 If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, or her marital rights. 11 And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out for nothing, without payment of money.
12 “Whoever strikes a man so that he dies shall be put to death. 13 But if he did not lie in wait for him, but God let him fall into his hand, then I will appoint for you a place to which he may flee. 14 But if a man willfully attacks another to kill him by cunning, you shall take him from my altar, that he may die.
15 “Whoever strikes his father or his mother shall be put to death.
16 “Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death.
17 “Whoever curses[c] his father or his mother shall be put to death.
18 “When men quarrel and one strikes the other with a stone or with his fist and the man does not die but takes to his bed, 19 then
if the man rises again and walks outdoors with his staff, he who struck
him shall be clear; only he shall pay for the loss of his time, and
shall have him thoroughly healed.
20 “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. 21 But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.
22 “When
men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come
out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined,
as the woman’s husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judges determine. 23 But if there is harm,[d] then you shall pay life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
26 “When a man strikes the eye of his slave, male or female, and destroys it, he shall let the slave go free because of his eye. 27 If he knocks out the tooth of his slave, male or female, he shall let the slave go free because of his tooth.
28 “When an ox gores a man or a woman to death, the ox shall be stoned, and its flesh shall not be eaten, but the owner of the ox shall not be liable. 29 But
if the ox has been accustomed to gore in the past, and its owner has
been warned but has not kept it in, and it kills a man or a woman, the
ox shall be stoned, and its owner also shall be put to death. 30 If a ransom is imposed on him, then he shall give for the redemption of his life whatever is imposed on him. 31 If it gores a man’s son or daughter, he shall be dealt with according to this same rule. 32 If the ox gores a slave, male or female, the owner shall give to their master thirty shekels[e] of silver, and the ox shall be stoned.
You are judging them.
Sidney, as editor-in-chief and moderator of The Rebelution, I’m unsure why you’ve come onto this website to publish so many hurtful and attacking comments. You clearly disagree with us and have no interest in a civil debate, so it’s absolutely unnecessary and even inappropriate for you to keep commenting.
I’m giving you full warning that I will ban you if you continue to comment as you have.
This is a Christian community, and we ask every member to comment with grace, compassion, and discernment. Your comments have sadly lacked those things.
In Christ,
Jaquelle
Then you are immoral and cruel. Simple.
Would you like to debate?
When you begin with the premise that gay people do not deserve to be with the people they love you loose. This is article hate speech plain and simple, and I find it insipid and heinous. Don’t think that just because you are Christians nobody will critisize you.
Sidney, this is exactly the kind of discourteous dialogue that helps no one. I would not like to debate you (I don’t think that would be worthwhile for either one of us), and if you think this discussion thread is hate speech, I don’t know why you’re wasting your time trolling it. You say there is a lack of love here, yet you’re the one who has belittled, name-called, and criticized. Which is why, for the sake of our community, I’m going to ban you. And even though I believe it’s best, I’m genuinely sorry.
I’m sorry you feel that way Sidney. However, as a Christian, I can’t deny the part of the Bible that lays out marriage as a sacred commitment created to be only between one man and one woman. So that’s why I don’t agree with gay marriage. However, I have many friends who are gay. It’s not as if I shun them or hate them. I care about them just as much as every other friend I have! Just like any other issue, we respect each other’s beliefs and work toward better understandings of the opposite viewpoint.
That passage does not in any way condone the type of slavery you are thinking of. In fact, if *you* had read the passage, you would see that lifetime slavery was only by the slave’s choice. The Bible lays down guidelines that make sure that this form of slavery (in essence, indentured servanthood) does not become the tragic enslaving of entire races as seen in history a few centuries ago. Also, note that it never actually says “hey by the way slavery is okay.” God never condones slavery, He tolerated it.
It’s not hatred. Let me reword your question a couple times:
“Do you not believe that denying pedophiles the right to molest children is expressing hatred towards them?”
“Do you not believe that denying murderers the right to kill people is expressing hatred towards them?”
In both cases, it’s obviously not hatred to stop those people from doing bad things. Likewise, it’s not hatred to deny homosexuals the “right” to sin with each other just as it is not hatred to deny murderers the “right” to murder people. =)
Oh btw just a friendly head’s up – you are bordering troll levels with posting the same copy-and-pasted passage from the Bible repeatedly and accusing other commenters of being hateful and heinous, so you might wanna be careful or you may get banned, just take it from a former mod of a Disqus channel =/
That’s right, *nothing* can come from *nothing*. What’s weird is to believe that *something* can come from *nothing, which is what every atheist I know of believes =P
I’m not sure I understand what you’re getting at Sidney. I don’t expect their orientation to change because they only have one orientation, and no I wouldn’t demand celibacy to gays. Everyone is in a different walk off life, gays included, and everyone needs love.
Hi Sidney,
May I ask, how is stating the way i feel and expressing disagreement a judgement?? If simply expressing disagreement or critique is the equivalent of judgement then you are judging me right now.
There is a kind way and a not kind way to stand up for what’s right; a judgemental way and a not judgemental way.
Despite the popularity of the belief, there IS objective morality. Not that we can’t disagree with one another, but morality isn’t determined by the individual. The term “tolerance” has been distorted to the point of it meaning “believe what you want as long as you don’t disagree with what I’m doing”. Morality in our nation is skewed.
I strongly disagree with the practice of homosexuality and to express my disagreement is not judgemental so long as I do so in a loving way which, in the comment, I feel like I have done.
I apologize if I have offended you. You have a right to disagree with me; but please remember I also have the right to disagree with you. So I would appreciate if you would refrain from calling names and labeling people “immoral” and “cruel” like I see you have done in other comments. I’m happy to discuss this with you and hear a response, but only if we can keep this civil.
Thank you. =) And thanks for expressing your feelings!
JSYK Sidney got blacklisted and can’t comment any more =)
Oh okay! haha…that’s helpful! ;D I was like “should I reply to him? should I not?” Thanks for letting me know! =)
I realize that this is way late, but it sure sounds like you hate Ray? Why? He is not perfect, and might even be a bit off in some of his doctrine or techniques, but he’s trying his best to proclaim the gospel truthfully. Don’t judge a technique or philosophy by its misuse.
Remember that miss information is dangerous, don’t speak out against someone on just say so. Look in the mirror and reevaluate your own lifestyle before condemning another. I am not accusing you of anything, but just think about it. 🙂