The Nativity Story: In Theatres Now

I saw this movie opening night and was pleasantly surprised by how accurate it was, and how good of quality it was. My dad took me and one of my sisters. We liked it so much, that we told our grandmother about it so she’s going to take me, my two sisters and my cousin. Who knows? I may even see it a third time. Everyone should see this movie!

I thought that the movie was pretty good also, but I was disappointed when I caught several unbiblical parts such as when the wise men were returning home they just stated that they thought it would be a good idea to keep Jesus’ birth a secret but in the Bible it says that they were warned in a dream not to go back to Herod. These inaccuracies wouldn’t deter me from going to see it again or recommending it to one of my Christian friends, but I feel sad that those who don’t know the real story will be getting an untrue account of it.

Emily said: “I caught several unbiblical parts such as when the wise men were returning home they just stated that they thought it would be a good idea to keep Jesus’ birth a secret but in the Bible it says that they were warned in a dream not to go back to Herod.”

I also found a few of these things a bit disconcerting…and, as Stephanie said, I felt that Mary was portrayed as a bit too moody, and less like the ONE woman in all of earth’s history who would get to give birth to the Messiah…HOWEVER, I also gained some deeper understanding, and different angles on things that I would not have thought of otherwise. Like: I never thought of it really, but technically, Mary COULD have been stoned for adultery! That was in the law.
Also, I think my “favorite” part of the movie was the shepherds visiting Jesus. Shepherds were despised and looked down on in those days, yet God Himself made sure that they were the fist to visit the baby Jesus!

I would recommend seeing it to anyone, just read the accounts of Jesus’ birth in Luke and Matthew before you go, so you can tell where they added Hollywood. However, despite that they inevitably had to add “Hollywood” to make the story a movie, I felt that they did a pretty applaudable job at sticking to the facts and making the story come alive!

I’ll put a link to this on my blog.

I loved this movie! It really made Mary and Joseph into living breathing people instead someone I just read about. I felt anewed awe at the miracle of Jesus’ birth and thankfulness for His sacrifice!

I wasn’t crazy about the portayal of the angel appearing to the sheperd, I wanted to see that great heavenly host! But beyond that I absolutely loved it!!

Thanks guys for the report…Our family is planning to go see it this weekend!

While I have yet to see this movie, I’m going this comong Saturday, I was surprised at what one blogger wrote

- I am sorry to say that I will not be attending the movie simply for the fact that the sixteen year-old actress Keisha Castle-Hughes, a Maori of New Zealand and Australia, has gloriously proclaimed that she is pregnant by her nineteen year-old boyfreind. When the director of the film learned about it, she praised her for her courage. One article that I read even paralleled her pregnancy out of wedlock to that of Mary’s. -

I have a friend who has a beautiful daughter that was born out of wedlock, and while I don’t agree with her decision to have sex before marriage, I don’t think God would be very happy with me if I cut her out of my life by declaring her a sinner. (which would make me the biggest hypocrite ever.) While I understand Emily’s motives, I’m not sure I follow her logic. She won’t go see the movie because the actress is a sinner who embraces that sinful lifestyle… umm, okay, but doesn’t everyone at one point in their lives embrace sin? And what if you found out the voice of Ariel in “The little Mermaid” was voiced by a stripper? (she’s not – by the way) Are you honestly telling me you would never watch that movie again?

That was a little harsh, and I apologize, I just think we need to remember to disapprove of the sin – not the sinner

Here’s a question for you guys….Did you see The Passion of the Christ? If you did, did you gain anything from watching it…and if you didn’t watch it what were your reasons? Personally I didn’t watch it because I do not like lots of blood and gore…I would have like to watch the story though…I just heard it was really gruesome. Anyway what are your thoughts?

I didn’t watch it because it was way too gruesome. I don’t do torture scenes so I did not see it and do not plan to.

My parents and sister went while I was out of town, and I’ll be going with my sibling’s tonight. I’m looking forward to it!

I’m gonna go see The Nativity tonight! Can’t wait!!!

I’m not saying I was looking down at the actors… Just that their acting left something to be desired. I’m in no place to judge others.

Anyway, it’s a little risky making movies about this kind of thing. In the end, the bible is the only thing we can stand on.

And don’t foreget…God-hates-sinners. That message is all through the bible. He dosen’t have these warm, mushy feelings for Keisha. Only when we make Christ our savior do we get forgivenss.

I could say so much about this movie. I am not here to say that it is a wonderful movie, nor am I here to say that I agree with the creation of it. Rather, I am here to show you that Scripture clearly condemns it.

The Second Commandment is “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or the likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them not serve them, for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquities of the fathers, unto the children, unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me, and showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.”

If this commandment is applicable to all men (which it is), then this movie is against the teaching of this commandment. We cannot, as men, created an image of God that can truly express His glory. Especially if we are using an image based on humans. Even though Christ was in a human form, He was 100% God, and 100% man. Making an image of Christ is to disobey this commandment.

Also, for an example that everyone might understand, I have a story to tell. A married woman went on a woman’s retreat with her friends. She forgot to bring a picture of her husband, so she decided to use a picture of a random man from the internet to use. She put it in her wallet. When one of her friends asked her who the man was, she replied, “I don’t know. I am just using it to remind me of my husband.” How would her husband have felt about what she had done? He most certainly would have been angry with her.

With all of the images of God and Christ around, I always ask myself, “How do they know what he looks like?” Making an image of Christ is like using a picture of another man to worship Him.

All I am trying to do is show that what Hollywood did with ‘The Passion of the Christ’, and most recently, ‘The Nativity Story’, are complete lies. Alex and Brett, you may remove this comment if you so desire, but I hope that the Scriptures are first and foremost in your reasoning for removing this comment.

In Christ,

Matt

I went and saw it yesterday! I enjoyed it a lot and liked how they brought out some of the things we don’t really think of when we celebrate Christmas. It’s amazing how much God was doing and working together, and I thought this was a pretty good portrayal of the story.

“And don’t foreget…God-hates-sinners. That message is all through the bible. He dosen’t have these warm, mushy feelings for Keisha. Only when we make Christ our savior do we get forgivenss.”
Whoa, Lucy. “For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son…” Did he love us before or after we were forgiven? Does he only love Christians? Why does he invite sinners then? With much love and respect, you need to examine your personal image of God. Remember Jesus- he ate with sinners, healed sinners, lived with a bunch of sinners. And he loved them enough to die. God wants us to come to repentance, and I agree that if Keisha continues in her life of sin she will face the consequences. But I strongly disagree that God hates her. I believe that he loves her every bit as much as he does me. And my sin (not me) is every bit as loathsome in God’s sight as hers.

I was disappointed to hear of her pregnancy. It’s sad and ironic. But there’s a reason these people are called actors and actresses. They don’t have to be typecast in order to do a good job playing a role. Meaning she doesn’t have to be a virgin to play one, people don’t have to be straight to act like it, and vice versa. This may be why Christian-produced movies tend to be so (brace yourself, I’m sorry!) BAD. They only cast Christians, who are, sadly, often less competant than a Hollywood pro. I really wish it didn’t have to be that way- having to choose between a morally good cast and an actually good movie.

The Nativity Story wasn’t perfect. They arranged some parts to make it flow better, and changed some small, non life-threatening, details. (Like the Wise Men deciding on their own, instead of having an angel tell them. The outcome was the same-they didn’t report to Herod.) But I admired the spirit, and the historical context made this great story become so much more real in my mind.

Dear Alex,

I used to think it was okay to make images, movies and pictures of God. But then my pastor challenged me one day to submit to the authority of God’s Word on the matter of God’s image. Below are some of the things I studied.

I challenge you to demonstrate from Scripture where God ever condones or ever encourages any image to be made of Him.

Always be Biblical and let every thought be taken captive and submitted to the Authority of God…

Thanks for challenging me to do the hard things…..

Westminster Larger Catechism.

Q109: What are the sins forbidden in the second commandment?

A109: The sins forbidden in the second commandment are, all devising,[1] counseling,[2] commanding,[3] using,[4] and anywise approving, any religious worship not instituted by God himself;[5] tolerating a false religion;[6] the making any representation of God, of all or of any of the three persons, either inwardly in our mind, or outwardly in any kind of image or likeness of any creature whatsoever;[7] all worshiping of it,[8] or God in it or by it;[9] the making of any representation of feigned deities,[10] and all worship of them, or service belonging to them;[11] all superstitious devices,[12] corrupting the worship of God,[13] adding to it, or taking from it,[14] whether invented and taken up of ourselves,[15] or received by tradition from others,[16] though under the title of antiquity,[17] custom,[18] devotion,[19] good intent, or any other pretense whatsoever;[20] simony;[21] sacrilege;[22] all neglect,[23] contempt,[24] hindering,[25] and opposing the worship and ordinances which God hath appointed.[26]

1. Num. 15:39
2. Deut. 13:6-8
3. Hosea 5:11; Micah 6:16
4. I Kings 11:33; 12:33
5. Deut. 12:30-32
6. Deut. 13:6-12; Zech. 13:2-3; Rev. 2:2, 14-15, 20, Rev. 17:12, 16-17
7. Deut. 4:15-19; Acts 17:29; Rom. 1:21-23, 25
8. Dan. 3:18; Gal. 4:8
9. Exod. 32:5
10. Exod. 32:8
11. I Kings 18:26, 28; Isa. 65:11
12. Acts 17:22; Col. 2:21-23
13. Mal. 1:7-8, 14
14. Deut. 4:2
15. Psa. 106:39
16. Matt. 15:9
17. I Peter 1:18
18. Jer. 44:17
19. Isa. 65:3-5; Gal. 1:13-14
20. I Sam. 13:11-12; 15:21
21. Acts 8:18
22. Rom. 2:22; Mal. 3:8
23. Exod. 4:24-26
24. Matt. 22:5; Mal. 1:7, 13
25. Matt. 23:13
26. Acts 13:44-45; I Thess. 2:15-16

Westminster Shorter Catechism

Q49: Which is the Second Commandment?

A49: The Second Commandment is, Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth, thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me; and showing mercy unto thousands of them that love Me, and keep my commandments.[1]

1. Exod. 20:3-6

Q50: What is required in the Second Commandment?

A50: The Second Commandment requireth the receiving, observing,[1] and keeping pure and entire, all such religious worship and ordinances as God hath appointed in His Word.[2]

1. Deut. 32:46; Matt. 28:20
2. Deut. 12:32

Q51: What is forbidden in the Second Commandment?

A51: The Second Commandment forbiddeth the worshipping of God by images,[1] or any other way not appointed in His Word.[2]

1. Deut. 4:15-16
2. Col. 2:18

Q52: What are the reasons annexed to the Second Commandment?

A52: The reasons annexed to the Second Commandment are, God’s sovereignty over us,[2] his propriety in us,[2] and the zeal He hath to His own worship.[3]

1. Psa. 95:2-3
2. Psa. 45:11
3. Exod. 34:14

The Heidelberg Catechism,
Q96: What does God require in the second Commandment?

A96: That we in no way make any image of God,[1] nor worship Him in any other way than He has commanded us in His Word.[2]

1. Deut. 4:15-19; Isa. 40:18, 25; Rom. 1:22-24; Acts 17:29
2. I Sam. 15:23; Deut. 4:23-24; 12:30-32; Matt. 15:9; John 4:24

Q97: May we not make any image at all?

A97: God may not and cannot be imaged in any way; as for creatures, though they may indeed be imaged, yet God forbids the making or keeping of any likeness of them, either to worship them or to serve God by them.[1]

1. Exod. 23:24-25; 34:13-14; Deut. 7:5; 12:3; 16:22; II Kings 18:4; John 1:18

Q98: But may not pictures be tolerated in churches as books for the people?

A98: No, for we should not be wiser than God, who will not have His people taught by dumb idols,[1] but by the lively preaching of His Word.[2]

1. Jer. 10:8; Hab. 2:18-19
2. II Peter 1:19; II Tim. 3:16-17; Rom. 10:17

The Second Helvetic Confession
Chapter IV
Of Idols or Images of God, Christ and The Saints
Images of God. Since God as Spirit is in essence invisible and immense, he cannot really be expressed by any art or image. For this reason we have no fear pronouncing with Scripture that images of God are mere lies. Therefore we reject not only the idols of the Gentiles, but also the images of Christians. Although Christ assumed human nature, yet he did not on that account assume it in order to provide a model for carvers and painters. He denied that he had come to abolish the law and the prophets (Matt. 5:17). But images are forbidden by the law and the prophets (Deut. 4:15; Isa. 44:9). He denied that his bodily presence would be profitable for the Church, and promised that he would be near us by his Spirit forever (John 16:7). Who, therefore, would believe that a shadow or likeness of his body would contribute any benefit to the pious? (II Cor. 5:5). Since he abides in us by his Spirit, we are therefore the temple of God (II Cor. 3:16). But what agreement has the temple of God with idols? (II Cor. 6:16).

Dear Alex,

Please send your position. My Dad does not care for most of these kinds of blogs but has given me the okay on this one. He likes how you challenge boys to be men.

HoJo

Aryah…

I encourage you to read the book of Psalms, it’s full of verses about how much God hates sinners. Verses that say that He could knock the teeth of sinners down their throat, He hates them so much.

‘When God so loved the world’ —–When God so loved the world to the extent that he gave them a chance to repent.. He loved the future Christians enough to send His Son.
To say that God loves sinners is against bible doctrine.

Have you ever thought about the fraise, ‘The fear of the LORD is the beginning wisdom’? What do you think the fear of the Lord is? From what I’ve heard in the bible, I’m afraid of God. No more do I see this repentant Father bailing me out over and over… I see GOD. And I’m afraid of Him. He is so powerful and good, that I am nothing. How could He love me? A creature so full of sin that it is my nature to do so?

God hates sin, my very nature is sin.

Do you fear God Aryah? Do you really?

He loves me because I have accepted His free gift of mercy; Jesus. When the Holy Spirit came to me, He saw Jesus, His Son, reflected in me, and He loved me. When we accept Christ, He sees Jesus. We have no power to stop sinning, God is the only reason we can because He works in us through Christ. We can not produce a single good thought action or word, it’s all the Holy Spirit.

I can understand if Alex or Brett would choose not to let me post this, it might spark a lot of things. But this is were God has lead me to stand. I have the gift of prophecy, and I know this is what He wants me to stand on.

Lucy

Dear Alex,

What Lucy says is quite scriptural, you cannot deny this. But I would like to say that yes, we as Christians are not to arrogantly proclaim this fact about God to those who are not saved, and I do not think that Lucy would ever do this.

Lucy is simply saying that because God does hate the doers of iniquity, those whose sin is not covered by the blood of Christ, we Christians are not to associate ourselves and our deeds with those of the world. God is displeased when light associates with the darkness. The wicked can do great things, yes, but we must be highly discerning as to what we praise them for doing.

The Nativity Story was made for the money that the producers new they could get from the thousands and thousands of Christians around the world such as you and I. Do you really think that they did it to spread the gospel message? The world smiles when they can get the Christian dollars in their grasp, and this is exactly why it was made.

I must also say that Howard’s argument is also very biblical. I really don’t like to read of Jesus in the Bible and picture him as one of many long-haired hippies, which is what most of the images look like. There is a reason why we do not have any historical descriptions or pictures of Christ apart from the fact that He was not comely to look upon. We don’t even have any artifacts of His, not one single object even related to Him. I would think that these facts would make it quite obvious that God did not intend us to have any picture or object to plague our brains with questions of how He may have looked. Personally, I really enjoy how in Ben Hur, Jesus face is never shown.

Nevertheless, these things should be pondered seriously. I highly doubt if anyone will be drawn to the Lord through this movie, The Nativity Story, but God does work in mysterious ways. In the long run, there are far more edifying things than supporting a Hollywood movie, much less the theatres they are shown in. God’s will be done.

God bless you Alex, and I don’t want to sound too judgmental; you have probably already considered these things (smile).

Thankyou very much for hearing me out!
Emily

I saw ‘The Nativity’ this past weekend. I thought the film had a strong first and third act, but the second act seemed to lack the epic feel that the commercials had implied. There were also some disappointing errors so I would definitely recommend reading Matthew and Luke’s accounts of Christ’s birth before showing up at the theater. I will say though that the film was definitely thought-provoking and it was worth seeing in theaters; it just wasn’t what the commercials said it would be.
I would also like to recommend ‘Unidentified’ if anyone’s looking for good Christian films to watch. It’s written, directed and produced by Rich Christiano (‘Time Changer’) and is an extremely insightful, suspenseful and interesting look at UFO’s. It’s a great witnessing tool to use with both unbelievers and Christians who believe in life on other planets.

Gracie: Because Satan delights in schism.
On the God-hates-sinners debate: God does not hate any particular sin more than the rest. I am a sinner deserving of His wrath whether I murder a child, have a baby out of wedlock, or tell a tiny fib that seems to be harmless. If God hates sinners, that would mean He hates everyone, even His children, because they are still sinners. Furthermore, think about Paul. As Saul, he committed heinous acts against God, yet God nearly forced him to salvation and then used him to further His name in incredible ways. Not to mention the fact that He wrote almost half the New Testament through Paul. Yes, God hates sin, but He does not hate sinners; He has chosen to give them a chance at change. He does not want us to cringe in fear at Him; He wants us to love Him because He loves us more than we can ever imagine. It is interesting to note that fear of an angry God is at least part of what drove Martin Luther to start a Reformation, which, unfortunately, was not very peaceful. Please do not let this debate become a major division among us.

On an entirely different note, has anyone seen “One Night With the King”? Would you recommend it? I’ve read Plugged In’s review and I’ve always loved the story of Esther, so I hope to see this one soon.

“on an entirely different note”

(laughs)

Yes, that really is on an entirely different note.

UPDATE: Hey guys, I work for a talk radio network. Anyway, just thought I would let you know that the producer for this movie is going to be on one of my shows. Listen Live @ http://www.AccentRadio.com on 12-21-06 11:06a to 11:33a ET. Thanks! -Josh

WOW! So much to say. I can see both sides of the issue. I myself tend to by very black and white with how I interpret the Bible. BUt because I have seven siblings debates like this freely flow. This must be used to sharpen each other, not tear each other.

Lucy: I cannot judge whether God has directly spoken to you or not. IF He has, then there will be scripture to back it up. God does not contradict Himself. And when I say scripture I mean taking ALL the verses (even the ones that seem contradictory) and reading them. Not just the Psalms. Personally I think what was written in the Psalms is slightly different now (not changed or watered down). Because then only the Jews were saved, and it was through the Law. When Christ came we are ALL able to be saved by grace. God hates sin, and He hates it when we impose on the grace we have, by sinning. If I were to continue living in sin, and waste the Blood I would be grieving Him. But to say that God hates the sinners themselves is not true. He hates the sin, the wickedness of their hearts, but the original person that He created and designed He does not hate. And therefore it is incorrect to say that He hates the sinner.

Who can know the mind of God, that he should instruct it?

I cannot know if God has directly told you that He hates sinners, but be extremely careful. The Bible says to “test the spirits” to make sure they are in line with Scripture; in this case they do not appear to be in line with all of the verses that concern God’s love for us. I don’t think it would say that “God so loved the world”, if He hated everything on it.

As for creating an image or idol I don’t know. Alex I would be very interested if I could see your thoughts on that (Howard saw it but i didn’t)

As long as you are not worshipping it, or making it any sort of idol is it ok? Couldn’t any object you have fall into danger of becoming an idol, and not just movies?

I haven’t seen the Nativity Story, nor have I seen movies that show Christ. (I also love Ben Hur for keeping his image a mystery.) My brother has seen the Nativity Story, and he really loved it. My brother loves the Lord, and He would rather die that grieve the spirit through sinning. I’m inclined to believe that if it is a sin to see movies than the Lord iwll convict me of that. (Because I’m inclined to believe that the scripture can be interpreted in different ways on this issue…as long as I am not listening to someone with a perverse mouth Prov 8:13; nor putting any evil thing before my eyes Ps 101:3).

Does God condemn all art? All creativity, because we are all sinners and all have sin tainting everything we do? Please, everyone, read the Scripture, follow the spirit, and not the flesh, and do not fall into legalism. We are saved by grace.

I appreciate all your thoughts I feel challenged to restudy the Bible, not with my understanding but having my mind open to wrong decisions I have come to.

Thoughts?

Your Sister,
Claire

Emily: I have to research and study the Word for what you said. I jsut wanted to ask you AND Lucy what you mean when you say God hates the wicked. And what Lucy means when she says that God hated us, adn only after we were covered by the blood did we become able to eb loved. This directly contradicts Romans 5:8. but perhaps your meaning of God’s hate is different than I thought.

I did not mean to imply that there are different interpretations of Scripture, there is absolute Truth. But many humans interpret it differently…what the Truth is is hard to say. I’ll write more later but it could have to be after Christmas.

Of course Brittany Spears is the same sinner as I, and as Keisha. I admit it would turn me of more, but that is my human judgment. I would hope that I would view her the same as I would view Keisha.

-Later

I have not yet seen this movie, but will be seeing it tomorrow (Christmas Eve). I have read the comments on this post and to everyone who is saying they won’t be seeing this movie because of the actors lifestyles I have 2 questions for you: 1)Everyday, most of us, watch shows or movies with people who live ungodly lifestyles so why couldn’t we see this movie? and 2) We are not beyond the same sin; we should think of ourselves as the worst sinner. I know it’s hard to look at someone’s lifestyle and not judge them, but when we put it in perspective, we are all sinners. Just my thoughts.

Lucy,

I guess I think there’s a HUGE difference in hating the sin and the evil, and hating the sinner. What do you have to say about Rom 5:8? I have read throuhg the Bible a couple times, and I study it ever day using various types of studying. I know that God hates evil, and hates the wicked way, and there are seven abominations to Him. His love doesn’t mean that He accepts these things, but rather He loves them SO much that He would send His Son to save them from them. Where in Scripture does it say that only after we are saved does He love us? Jesus ate, healed and kept company with plenty of sinners. I agree that most people do not have enough fear of God. But if that is the case it is a misunderstanding of what His love is. His love isn’t letting us do whatever we want.

Stephanie: Good point. Why don’t we jsut cut any and all of that junk?

I don’t feel that I’m living in a dream world, or trying to believe that God loves all of us. I don’t claim to understand why some people aren’t saved. I don’t claim to understand why if God is truly good, He couldn’t somehow use His power to save us all. But I certainly would NEVER claim that it is because God hates all sinners (myself included.) It sounds almsot legalistic. If God hates sinners, than He only loves you if your perfect, which we can never be. Hell si a horrible place, and a real place. But the one thing I know is that God does love us. Would you die for someone you hate? Would you suffer for someone you hate? Would you be crucified for someone you hate? No. This is only possible with love.

Perhaps when you say hate I misunderstand you. Because of this I’d like you to clarify what you mean when you say hate. ANd do you, like Emily think that it is impossible for God to love us, while hating our wickedness?

Also, why would I want to witness to people saying: Come serve this God that Hates you. In fact He hates you so much, He died to take you sins?

Please present scripture that says God loves us only after we’re saved.

-Still Unconvinced

Claire,

I think you missed my previous post…Read my thoughts there.

And on the,—’Come serve this God that hates you.’—Christ’s blood coveres our sins when we become saved, thats the Good News.

“I don’t feel that I’m…trying to believe that God loves all of us…” Than what do you believe? Anyone who reads your post will say that thats what you believe in.

Please present scripture? Read the entire bible, which you’ve said that you have already done. I have to, but I havn’t used a bible study, just prayed. (Not that I’m against bible studies, thats just the truth.) I like to listen to Michal Pearls teachings on things, though. Go to, http://www.nogreaterjoy.com to check him and his family out, if you want to. I ‘ve read the entire bible, not just one verse that says, ‘God hates sinners’ or ‘God loves sinners’, to come to my standpoint.

Lucy

I, for one, respect Emily Walker’s decision to not see The Nativity Story (6th comment). It is refreshing to see someone who is willing to stand up for what they believe. Even if her fellow brothers and sisters in Christ don’t agree with her position, they definitely should not criticize or mock her. I think Paul’s discussion regarding meat sacrificed to idols in 1 Corinthians 10 applies here. If someone else thinks it is wrong to eat meat sacrificed to idols (watch a movie with an immoral actress), we should respect their belief, but if we don’t feel the same way we are in no way obligated to agree.

Personally, I went to see The Nativity Story with family and friends, and we all enjoyed it very much. Reading the Biblical account of Christ’s birth gives us all of the story that we can know to be true, but the movie helps us (at least some of us) to appreciate and fully grasp the lowliness of the circumstances of Jesus’ birth. It helps us to see the story in a new light whenever we read it from the pages of the Bible.

I’m sure God will use this movie as a tool to bring about great things is many lives.

Wow, good point Jeff…I, for one, am able to watch movies and detect what was incorrect by reading the bible, etc….It’s not a big deal or struggle for me to watch movies like the Nativity and discern, but other poeple might be more sensitive to what the message of a movie is. Thanks for the reminder to respect others.

Lucy

“Does Hell sound like a place God would send people He loves? If He had this all-consuming love for sinners, would He really send them to Hell?”

C.S. Lewis said that the doors of Hell were locked on the inside. If we refuse God’s offer of salvation, we choose Hell. In fact, we *must* go to Hell; otherwise God would not be just. Our sin requires payment, and if we will not let God pay for us, we will pay with ourselves in Hell. I believe God loves everyone and wants everyone to choose to spend eternity with Him, but He cannot force that choice.
Lucy, was there something specific Michael Pearl said that caught your attention? You said his sermon socked you; I’d like to know how.

By the way, Merry Christmas everyone!

Stephanie: I have a hard time respecting something that seems to contradict the entire point of the Bible. But perhaps I need to re-evalutate her point.

Lucy: If God hates us, and sinners, then why does it say that “God is love”…can love and hate coexist? Why would the two greatest commandments be to love, if God hates?

Why are whole books dedicated proving God’s love toward us (Hosea specifically chpt.11 and I John?)

It doesn’t make sense, and I desperately want to know why it makes Biblical sense to you. It does say the fear of the Lord is to hate evil…not hate the evildoer.

I tend to come across sounding very strong and angry and passionate, because I am (not necessarily angry,lol). I want to be a teachable person, and if I’m missing some major point I truly want to know. But there’s got to be scripture to back it up.

I truly do not want this to turn into a debate…and I feel our writing has not been edifying or encouraging, and for this I am sorry. We are only supposed to say what imparts grace to the hearer, but I did not say it out of love…and so it was a clanging symbol.

I’m sorry everyone if I have caused discord among you, this was truly not my intention.

Merry Christmas!

Claire

Aryah, I want to thank you for challenging me! We should not keep silent about a subject so important! And it really made me think about my beliefs. I’m very passionate about this as well.

You want to hear scripture? Go to the book of John and read the last verse in chapter three…It will tell you God’s wrath abides on those who do not believe on His Son. His –wrath- not His love, abides on those who are not saved.

Well, what has that to do with sinning and sinners?

Later in the bible, I don’t know the reference, but I’m sure everyone is familiar with it, it says when we become Christians, were dead to sin. That simple. We have a new walk, we have put away the old things and God makes us new. When we become saved, God doesn’t just ‘fix us up’…He makes us entirely new! That thought is so amazing to me…Why do you think think becoming a Christian is so wonderful? We are no longer slaves to sin.

How did Michal Pearl’s ‘God hates sinners’ impact me specifically? I used to believe God had this overwhelming love for all people. It changed the way I saw God. I won’t tell you about Michal Pearl, you can make your own decision about him. All that I will say is that he is one of the only people I’ve heard preach that makes me excited about being a Christian. He teaches directly from the bible, and that, to me, is precious. I don’t condemn people who are not saved, Christ did not come to the world to condemn, but to bring them to repentance. But I certainly don’t pity them…That’s all. If any one is interested, I’ve found the correct link to his site http://www.nogreaterjoy.org It’s a nonprofit organization. He has free audio downloads on his site so you can ‘sample’ his teaching. You can order the sermon ‘God hates sinners’ and listen to it yourself and see what you think about it. Just go to the store and pick ‘bible teaching’.

I’m a little curious as to why people addressed me, after I said God hates sinners, and told me-specifically, otherwise. Even after I said God told me I was not in the wrong. And I’m not trying to talk anyone into what I’m saying, I’m just standing by what I said earlier.

I think I’m done posting on this subject, I’ve said all I’ve had to say. Thanks for hearing me out!

Lucy

Lucy

Thanks for bringing that up Beth. Don’t worry about division, I don’t think any rebelutionary that has posted on this would let this devide them.

God loved the future Christians enough to send His Son. He saw all the ones who would accept Christ as their saviour. God loves His children. First it was the Jews, and then He sent His Son to be a sin offering so the Gentiles could be His Children as well. And just to make it clear, I believe in showing love to unbelievers. Thats our job on earth, to show Christ’s love and mercy, judgment is God’s.

I hope nobody thinks I’m stiff, angry or upset, because I’m not. And I’m not trying to argue my point. Just don’t expect me to say something like “God hates sinners” and not have words to back it up when people question it. (And, no, that was not directed at anyone in paticular. Thats just who I am.)

In God’s hands.

Lucy

Regarding the question of seeing films which include openly sinful actors: certainly “all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.” Christians openly acknowledge their sin, but also openly strive to stay away from it. They never openly flaunt it: King David repented publicly of his adultery. Actors who extol their sin as good are by definition not Christians, and are condemned by the Bible (“woe to them that call good evil, and evil good”). The former verse contextually refers to the depravity of man, prior to faith. In these films, we understood that the conversation was referring to those who are not professing Christians, and therefore do not see a logical application of the verse as validation for seeing them.

As to whether or not seeing such films is wrong, God does use His enemies to work His ends, and even to bless the righteous. Judas, though not regenerate, fulfilled Scriptural prophecies. Also, there is a measure of common grace given to all, and we are not forbidden in the Word of God to enjoy the talents of non-Christians. Moses used and benefited from the talents of a non-Israelite, one outside the covenant, who became his guide. Admittedly, as Rev. Wayne Rogers once said, there is often a “quiet exuberance” in the performances of Christians, since “the mark of sound doctrine given by our Saviour himself is its tendency to promote the glory not of men, but of God” (Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion). We would opine that it is not wrong to watch non-Christians act. However, what is possibly wrong is to support a (mostly) historical Christian film (The End of the Spear, The Nativity Story) in which the actors use their publicity from that film to promote and glorify their own sinful lifestyles. Notwithstanding, boycotting most Christian movies solely because of the inclusion of non-Christian actors is analagous to not listening to performances of splendid sacred symphonies dedicated to the glory of God because some non-Christians are in the orchestra: both situations would be lamentable.

Since I posted above, I’ve realized from the Bible that God does hate sinners. But He will also forgive them if they turn to Him, and love them with His everlasting love.

Just wanted to clarify.

I was wondering… have any of you seen the movie ”Martin Luther”? And if you have, would you or would you not recommend it? My family was wondering if it would be a good movie to watch for Reformation Day(October 31-we don’t do Halloween).
Some of my siblings are quite young(ages 9, 5, &3). Would the movie be appropriate for them too?

Hayley: My family watches “Luther” on Reformation Day (we don’t do Halloween either). I really enjoy watching it. It is actually quite accurate. But, it shows people in poverty, suffering, and death. This was a violent era in history. I would suggest your parents watch the film before deciding whether your younger siblings should see it. The rating is PG-13 for disturbing images of violence. Hopefully this helps you.

Under God’s grace,
Caleb R.

Hi! (i know this is years after the movie came out) but, i wanted to say that this is a great movie, and if you can see it, you should. Hannah, I have nothing to say just that I respect your decision on not seeing “The Nativity Story” I really don’t agree with you. but good choice just the same. Give all glory to God,ENT

I thought this movie was wonderful. Sure, it wasn’t completely accurate, but I believe that the majority of it was. And, by the way, I think Mary’s so-called “feminist” attitude was misinterpreted. As a teen, she naturally would have been attracted to someone her own age, and though she may have known marriage was coming, it still would have been a shock. So, I think that the whole feminist thing was kind of read into it by other people. But, yeah, good movie, highly recommended.

I know I’m kind of late — two-and-a-half years to be exact! — but I wanted to contribute my thoughts to the now-ended “Great GodandSinners Debate” on this page.

Lucy mentioned John 3:36. This verse reads: “He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides upon him.”

All right. Back to the Beginning. Directly after God created the universe He pronounced it “very good.” There was no sin, no evil; everything was perfect. Then Satan rebelled, along with a third of God’s angels, and he ended up in the Garden of Eden, where he tempted Eve and caused her to sin. Satan became the prince of this world, and evil reigned (until Christ’s resurrection, when He challenged death, fought it, and won a resounding victory)

Before the Fall, God loved Adam and Eve — they were His creation, designed to glorify Him! Then they disobeyed Him, rejected His authority, figured they knew better than God. So He caused them to become mortal, to experience pain.

But He loved them. God is perfect, He is Truth, He is righteousness, He is that which all Biblical standards are measured off of. He cannot endorse sin, live with it, be okay with it, or love it. But — He loves us. Incredible — but credible; we have God’s Word as testimony.

John 3:16 says, “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” Unbelievable — but as Christains we all have believed it, and have been SAVED! SAVED! Oh, what joy, what boundless, exhilirating, JOY! No longer are we slaves to sin — though our flesh may pull hard. Christ has knocked at the door of our hearts and we have let Him in — He is on the throne of our lives. Every temptation, every evil about us is still there, but we have God on our side; our flesh (in reality: principalities, powers, rulers of darkness of this age, spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places — see Eph. 6:12) doesn’t stand a chance. For if God is with us — who’s going to prevail against us? God loves us.

John 3:36. “He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides upon him.”

compared with

John 3:16. “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.”

After first glance (and second glance!), these verses flow together perfectly! Since when did being angry morph into being void of love? Have you ever been so mad at your younger sister or brother you desperately wished you could do something to help them? It is similar to the relationship between God and man. One thing, though — God does not get “mad.” “Mad” or “madness” stems from anger, but is mostly driven by emotions; it blinds people, often causing them to do terrible things. God does not get mad — but God is angry. He hates sin (remember God is the opposite of sin — God is Truth, while sin is rejection of The Truth) and He is angry at those men who do not repent.

Did you know you never get angry over something — or someone — you are not concerned about?? Think about it; it’s true. God is angry at sinners; they are His creation and are rejecting Him, the Creator. He is hurting for them, His heart is breaking for them, He is agonizing terrible pain as He sees them close their eyes and their ears to His Call. You see He LOVES them — loves them more than can be imagined, as He says in His Word. He beckens them to come to Him, but they will not. He is angry — but His heart is breaking.

Were we sinners before we allowed Christ Jesus to save us? Yes, we were — John 3:36 applied to us before we were saved. The wrath of God abided on us until we accepted his gift of salvation — we were not to see life before we were saved. Now, after we have accepted God’s salvation gift, we are to have everlasting life! But He loved us just as much before we were saved as He does now.

“…he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on Him.” (John 3:36b)

God has given all mankind a limited time – a lifetime – to accept His gracious mercy — but once this period is up and the filthy, unholy sinner faces God on the judgement seat, there is no going back. The wrath of God shall forever be upon him, he shall never see life; God will “disown” him: His love for this sinner will be ended.

Christians no longer are subject to the wrath of God; but we fear him — a kind of respect and awe as we realize His great power, that we are His creation, how He is is all-knowing, infinite, and a hater of sin. We fear Him — but not His wrath. Ideally, we obey Him and fear Him because of our LOVE for Him, not out of obligation or intimidation. You see? Since we are God’s children, he chastens us, nudges us, helps us along the Way. He is not only our Master, Lord, and Savior — He is our father. He is a much more loving, caring, and compassionate Father than any mortal father (this only goes one way, by the way: Love God more — don’t love your father less; God appointed him in that position!) Being God’s child is something I’d never trade for anything — it’s an awesome experience.

Remember this: God is angry at sinners; for they are His creation and are rejecting Him, the Creator. He is hurting for them, His heart is breaking for them, He is agonizing terrible pain as He sees them close their eyes and their ears to His Call. You see He LOVES them — loves them more than can be imagined, as He says in His Word. He beckens them to come to Him, but they will not. He is angry — but His heart is breaking.

This a great movie.
My family only watches it
at Christmas to keep it special.

This is my first post on this website-
I love this movie very much. It makes me cry, it motivates me to be a true woman of God, and it even made me love God more.
I think that the fact that the actress isn’t saved and has sinned should only mean one thing- we should pray for her. When tempted to judge someone, I think to myself “If I were famous, and even more so if I were not saved, I would sin, maybe behave even worse than any actress.” Because it’s true. That’s why all we can do is pray. If you don’t want to see the movie, that’s your choice. That’s ok. But it’s a good movie = )

TO Emily: I really don’t think we should be judging this girl on her actions in her real life. The Point of this review is to judge the movie NOT the actress’s life. I agree with you on my personal belief that what she did was wrong but judging this movie by what she did in her personal life is wrong. I think that people learn from their mistakes and that the Everyone who wants to could pray for the actress. Take Bristol Palin she is now raising a little boy and finished college and is making a better life for her son. Good Luck to the actress and Bristol.

Me and my sister love this movie. My sister always chooses two movies every Friday when my dad is at are church rehearsal.(he plays in the band.) Guess which is one of them.

By the way our family watched The Nativity; it wasn’t my favorite movie, a bit to emotionaly based, but the costuming/setting was great and I thought it was interesting how they showed the human side of everyone (if you know what I mean)
But I absolutly loved Facing The Giants, I think Sherwood Pictures does a fantastic job and I wholeheartedly appluade them along with other independent Christian film-makers. Alex, have either you or Brett seen Pendragon:The Sword Of His Father ? It’s produced by the Burnes family, home-schoolers, and is now one of our new found favorites! Phenominal costuming and sets! Thought you might like to know about it and maybe post it.
Keep living full-out for God!
Soli Deo Gloria! Becky

Friends, thank you. Contributions to Japan http://www.japan.edu.ms/

I was looking for information and facts in regards to this on Msn and came across your article. I thought it was nice and very clear. Thank you

Neo: “…but the truth seems to be that after getting everybody in the room, Obama will run off to the links for a round of golf.”

Extremely well written, well thought out article.

Wow, I just finished reading all the comments on this article, and I must say it brought some things to my attention I hadn’t really thought about before. On the movie, my family watches it every Christmas since it came out, and while it has it’s flaws, I still consider it pretty good. I know that the discussion on the God hating the sin not the sinner/ God hating sinners and sin was a long time ago, but I wanted to say that I believe that it has opened my eyes to some things and while I don’t agree with everything said by the people that participated in it, I will definatly be looking into it more.