The Modern Day Gentleman

Great speech! This is definitely an issue that needs to be addressed, as much for the girls as the guys. I have noticed over the past several years that guys I grew up with who would once-upon-a-time have offered a girl a seat when she enters a room, or offered to carry her bags/books, have ceased doing so, and I think it’s a shame our society has quenched the role of the gentleman. I look forward greatly to the follow-up post!

I feel like I’m repeating what everyone else said (except that I’m a guy), but that was great post.
The idea of gentlemanlike behavior being centered around self-centeredness is something that I wouldn’t have thought of. It’s not that I don’t agree with it, it’s just that I wasn’t raised that way, and neither was my dad. I would like to say that I’m a gentleman, but if I think about it, I’m not anywhere near being comparable to its original deffinition (besides the fact that a girl I know rated me at 5 on a 1-10 scale). 🙂

Very interested in seeing the next post!

I am also surprised that only girls have commented:-) But, since I have three younger brothers I should be sure to *help* them along in this area. I.e. make them open the doors, carry my stuff, etc. They are usually very open to it but since they are so little they just don’t think about it that much.

In the movie, A Man Called Peter, soon to be Mrs. Catherine Marshall makes a speech that is a great message every girl and woman needs to hear today. If I get a chance I will post it on m y blog.

My favorite part of her speech is when she says, “Woman had to step down to be equal with men.” Her point is Christianity has always treated women very well, and because of the feminist movement, women have lost that special treatment.

Hey! Great Post!
Notice anything though as you read the comments?? ‘Cept for Brett, everyone that has commented has been a girl. I just found that interesting…
anyway, let me just say I really appreciate the gentlemen that a know and have known!
Our culture tells us that we girls aren’t worth a whole lot as girls, in fact we are worth a whole lot more if we act like men and do jobs just like them. The culture puts almost no value on those of us who aspire to be homemakers someday. But when I read a post like this, or when a guy shows what a gentleman he is, I know that there are still guys out there that appreciate the fact that I’ve chosen to be a real girl! thanks Brett, for a great post!!!

Thanks for posting this wonderful speech! It was really an encouragement to see that chivalry is still alive and well among some. I look forward to the follow-up post.

God has blessed me with a wonderful, gentlemanly brother… who just went to college. I miss him so!

Everyone: I’m glad this message was a blessing to you. I am planning on following up on this post with another one which will address some of the issues you have mentioned. God bless!

Great analysis, Brett. It is disappointing to see young men growing up without the least bit of understanding of how to treat young ladies. But, because of this, it also makes those who are gentleman to stand out, thus shining God’s light to a dark world.

Excellent post. And thank you for your sensitive heart towards this topic. It is rare these days, but a blessing to see. Your young sisters in Christ appreciate it. 🙂

That�s a very inspiring and thought provoking speech, Brett. Good job.
I hope I will make a habit of this correct behavior. It will be neat to see more ladylike and gentlemanly behavior among Rebelutionaries. 🙂

This is another excellent post.

I know it is a big issue for me to let guys do stuff like that for me, not that it happens much anymore these days. But recently I had an issue involving crutches and I think that made some guys at my church think, “Oh yeah, she might need help with the door.” It was hard for me to accept help, so this is an area that I’ve felt convicted that I need to work on.

Thanks for the reminder!

Thank you so much! I now have a renewed spirit and a new focus. I need to focus more on others and being selfless and humble. I thank you for writing this.

~Levi

Thanks for your sharing your heart in the matter! I know I have greatly failed in my role as a gentleman and this has renewed some focus in my life.

Thank you, Brett; I am greatly encouraged.

Wow, I must agree– this a spectacular article.
But ouch. Being “the lady” will take some work, espicially for me. Add that to my ‘list of goals’.
Thank you again for the post. God bless! =)

I love encouraging my brothers in gentlemenly behavior, whether it be carrying the heaviest grocery bags or changing a lightbulb. The more I do it the more I see them delight in being strong and clever, as I assure them they are when they do these things. 🙂

I make it a point to not open doors for women who might be secular. If I know she is a believer, or dressed like a lady I will open the door. I’m trying to send a message that feminism has been a royal mess in our nation and I will not tolerate it.

I hear lots of women complaining about the lack of chivalry, and I say, ”good.” Perhaps it will open their eyes to the fact they cannot have the best of both worlds. The perks of being a man, and the perks of being the weaker vessel.

Patriarch makes an interesting point because he is a Christian and the point is so anti-Christian. Perhaps he could follow the example of Jesus and open the door for all ladies instead of only for the ones he deems acceptable. That would really send a message. To secular women who think the men are pricks…he is merely proving them right.

If a Christian man must treat all the women as ladies, even those who laugh into his face and insult him, does it mean that a Christian woman must treat all men like gentlemen, even those who are alcoholics and wife abusers? Women are quick to point out men’s faults nowadays. Doctors don’t like their own medicines…

What I was trying to say is really this: respect is not something a woman is automatically entitled to just because she is a woman. Respect must be earned. Women who claim that all women should be treated like ladies seldom insist that all men should be treated like gentlemen, even abusive jerks. For 40+ years men have been blamed for all the evils in society and now it starts showing in their attitudes to women. That is what I meant by “‘doctors don’t like their own medicines”.

Very well written. I hope to instill these principles into my own four budding gentlemen. Thanks for a great website!!!

Okay, to address Din and Liz,
Din, to address your first post. We as Christians need to do what Christ calls us to do, if that is to treat ALL women or men like gentleman or ladies, then we must do it all the time. No, well if they don’t treat me like I am supposed to be treated then I am not going to treat them the way they want to be treated. The way we treat people is a witness to our Christianity. To your second post, I think everyone deserves respect until proven different. Most people will probably not be worth the respect, but we must treat people like Christ commands us to.
Liz, protection of a man doesn’t necessarily mean from bad people. Do you not agree that men in general are stronger than most females? Do you not agree that there are just certain things that a man can do better than a woman? God designed it to be this way. I am glad as a female that I have my husband to protect me. It is a great feeling. I think you just kind of missing the whole point. It works, but ultimately we are all sinners, even after repentace, and will have to work our way through anything with Christ’s help. As far as religion being evil, it depends on what religion you are talking about.
Well, all of this sounded a lot better in my head, but I hope that my points came across.

Liz, to have a man offering help does not mean that the woman is silly or incapable. We must understand that men and women are different. We are designed differently, with different physique, way of thinking, character, bodily functions, roles, responsibilities and much more. You may been confident in performing certain activities but is it right for you to do it? Taking over a man’s role doesn’t make you a better person. It makes you more of a man, if anything else. Women these days are clamouring to be men and I cannot understand why. For a woman to be offered help does not mean that we can’t perform a certain deed. But rather that the man is willing to take the extra step to help. If you asked me, I’d say, “Why not?” Women and men have advantages and strengths but in different areas and if we try to cross that boundary, we will only end up in a muddled mess. Men being like women and women like men.

Your claims that religion subjects people to this is not a valid argument at all. But rather, you are being intolerant and subjecting others to your “religion is evil” opinion, which is entirely baseless. Religion, if it’s merely a set of rules to follow and some routines which people just go through blindly, would then be wrong. But Christianity is not a religion. It’s a way of life that is true and has proven and will continue to prove itself true as our God is a living God. Pick up a Bible and check these things out and read for yourself to see how “evil” it is. If you feel that your belief is true, what have you got to lose? But if your belief is false, you would lose eternity.

Liz,
After reading your last post, I feel that I am reading thoughts from one with a very negative and hopeless outlook on life. Please consider these thoughts; I believe they are great truths.

One, that you are a human being made in the likeness of your creator with an eternal soul. Two, that you, and each one of us as well, have sins – wrong things we have done – which we cannot ourselves wipe away.
Three, none of us can, by ourselves, fight the temptations that come to us, and
Four, none of us can make ourselves live forever.

The good news of this Christianity is that you can have all of these things! You said you have ‘nothing to lose’ — but consider the eternal part of you, your soul. You’re not just some piece of matter. How great to know you can have all of these things promised from someone who loves you because he made you. This Chrisitianity, which teaches that each gives up his interests for the interest of the other, is what prompts the thoughts given in this young man’s article. Who wouldn’t want that kind of world, where everyone looks out for the others’ interests? I’m here to suggest to you it makes life sweeter and finer. I don’t know how I could live life without the hope Jesus holds out in his Word.
Consider it! 🙂

Liz

I strongly disagree that Christianity is a religion. That was one thing I battled with my professor in philosophy. Being a Christian is not entering a religion, it is entering a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. Did Jesus Christ create a religion? No. Not anywhere in the Bible would you read that Jesus declared a religion.

I think you read the Bible with the wrong motive that’s why you think it is boring (I would recommend that you read the Boring? Read This! post here in Rebelution)

Men and women were created by God as complementary beings to fulfill the role He prepared for them. He did not create weaklings.

It doesn’t take much digging to discover the bigotry at the root of your worldview, Mister Charnley. I fully support the purpose of the original article, that is to encourage the attitude of service and chivalry in young men. That goal is not at cross-purposes with the advancement of women into the fields of science and medicine. Given that over the last several hundred years, advanced educational opportunities were generally closed to women, it is no surprise that the list of ‘great male thinkers’ you can name is longer than the list of women. Neither of us will be around in 150 years to argue how opening these ‘doors’ to women’s education, intellectual growth, and advancement will have helped society as a whole, but you’ll have to agree with me on one thing – your doomsaying on the subject isn’t going to make a bit of difference in the end.

My husband is a gentleman of the door-opening variety, but neither one of us encourages weakness in the other. We lift the heavy things together. If he’s got his hands full, I get the door. We encourage our daughter as well as our son in that regard, and want them to accept graciously help given by others, whether male or female. We also acknowledge that there are differences between men and women – no argument there – but these differences amount to a wonderful complementarity and variety of valuable perspective, not some sort of set of limitations that we have to tote around the rest of our lives. This is fully in keeping with the original article.

Liz, your husband sounds like a very nice man, and your mutual respect is evident in your posts. It is true, religion is at once responsible for the best and worst examples of human conduct. It’s because of all the people involved 🙂 We agree on that point, Mr. Charnley – only God shines as a beacon when the folly of men and women leaves our hearts in the dust.

Kelly wrote:Din, to address your first post. We as Christians need to do what Christ calls us to do, if that is to treat ALL women or men like gentleman or ladies, then we must do it all the time. No, well if they don’t treat me like I am supposed to be treated then I am not going to treat them the way they want to be treated. The way we treat people is a witness to our Christianity. To your second post, I think everyone deserves respect until proven different. Most people will probably not be worth the respect, but we must treat people like Christ commands us to.

Kelly, the Bible doesn’t tell us to “respect” everyone around us, much less to treat all men like gentlemen and all women like ladies. I’m not going to treat a wife beater and a woman who is a harlot and keeps aborting her children with the same respect as God-fearing citizens around me. Bible speaks of Christian love, better yet is to use the old word “charity”. Should we be charitable to such people? Yes, but we should also point out their sins to them and urge them to repent. And if a man chooses not to treat an obnoxious feminist as a lady, he is actually doing her a service becaise he shows in a mild way that such behaviour is wrong and unacceptable . That is a Christian thing to do. Loving somebody in a Christian way doesn’t mean accepting his bad or sinful behaviour. Would you accept the behaviour of a child molester and argue that we should treat him or her with respect?
BTW, Not being chivalrous doesn’t mean being plain rude in my eyes. Men normally don’t open doors for one another and nobody sees it as rudeness. To be treated like a lady by a man is a privilege, not a right. It probably used to be a right, but then most women used to be ladylike. And treating a die-hard men-hating feminist with chivalry will only insult her. And why would a polite man want to insult anyone?:)

“Peter, your “evidence’ is anecdotal at best”.

Evidence that demonstrates the course of shifting male/female medical student ratios running at an almost exact parallel to the growing shortage of consultant surgeons – and becoming particularly accute when the additional factor of professional qualification and period of attainment is also added to the equation – and in precise relation to the very time when the shoe-horning of women into the medical profession began in earnest – and largely at the expense of (not additional to) potential male students – is not anecdotal Angela. The same facts (ratios/time scales/outcome) applies to the influx of women (at the expense of men) into the science faculties within American universities

“No feminist conspiracy is preventing the great male minds of Britain from becoming physicians”.

With methods of education deliberately designed to stimulate and favor girls – again at the expense of boys, not in an attempt to bring them up alongside male students, who (post 15/16 – at which age aggregate male maturity catches up with that of female) were ahead in every sphere of education before feminism began to distort the landscape of our schools and universities, is indeed preventing many powerful male intellects from achieving their full potential, not just within the medical profession but right across the academic, technological and professional board. Many boys are being deliberately discouraged from taking an interest in their own long term educational needs by literally criminally minded, Marxist inspired, feminist academics. And this is applicable at every level of education – from pre-school to university.

Inevitably this will have serious consequences for the economies and eventually the quality of life within Western civilizations as they will gradually lose ground and their competitive edge (and their very heart, self-belief and will) to the rising Asian economic giants which cast an ever greater shadow over the world economy.

“Radical personalities (like Paglia) have a tendency to vacillate wildly”

Angela – I get the impression that you are not a ‘radical feminist’. But you are undoubtedly speaking here as an ‘apologist’, or as a defendant (consciously or unconsciously) for some of the things that people who see the modern women’s movement for what it truly is know to be critically wrong.

Your above statement about Camille Paglia typifies the extraordinary hypocrisy and crass double standards that is the very hallmark of modern feminism. The modern women’s movement is now nothing less than a vehicle of raw hatred that is totally dependant upon the derv. of lies, distorted reality and wildly emotional and ridiculous accusations and claims that attempts to propogate an image of the ‘toxic male/ pure female’.

As far as Paglia’s remark, itself, is concerned the evidence for its validity can, indeed, only ever be, in this instance, anecdotal. But to those of us not brainwashed by the illusion of feminism’s androgynous fantasies – and objectively look around us at the physical world in which we live and put it into true context with the past – at the technologies of communication, calculation, travel, energy, medicine – and in turn, perhaps, put that into context with such things as a recent paper that was submitted to the British Jounal of Psychiatry following the testing of approximately 10,000 university undergraduates which demonstrated that once IQ levels had moved upwards from the average of 100 to 105 males outnumbered females by 3:1. At 115 the gap was 5:1 – and by the time scores reached 147 the ratio had widened to over 10:1. And perhaps, alongside both the perspective of our living world and the facts about human intelligence (which is empirical evidence), we also factor into the equation the very nature of the human male, compared to that of the female, his greater innate predisposition for risk taking (physically, intellectually and financially) – would anyone seriously believe that so much as a miniscule fraction of the technology we take for granted today would exist if the onus for its conception and realisation had been in the hands of womankind. Ask yourself that Angela. And far as such a question is concerned you can only ever answer truthfully to yourself.

“you seriously believe that the idea of women having more options in life is more extreme and more radical than German Nazism or Soviet Communism??? Seriously”?

Feminism is not about women having more options in life Angela. Feminism is denying millions and millions of women throughout the Western world the very right to be women. To fulfill their roles as female human beings.

Not only is feminism deliberately and callously causing mistrust and division between men and women, it is demanding that those very things that distinguish the sexes, that are unique to each gender, are to be looked upon with abhorrence – particularly that which is masculine.

I could go on and on about such facts as falling birthrates amongst the Western world’s indigenous populations. About the massacre of hundreds of millions of human beings whose only crime was that they had yet to take their first breath. The rocketing rates of divorce, broken homes and the consequential devastating effect upon the long term mental and spiritual well being of our young. I will spare you such figures which you are perhaps already aware of and are free to interpret as you will – as far as the responsibility, options, well being and ‘feedom’ of women is concerned.

But using that word, ‘options’, that appears to be so important to you – I will quote the radical feminist British Parliamentary Minister, Patricia Hewitt, who was, until a few years ago, the Minister for Trade and Industry here in the UK.

When questioned about the decision to remove the ‘Married Couples Tax Allowance’, which granted certain tax breaks to families, particularly to those reliant on a single income, she openly declared that women, even those with small children, should not be allowed to stay at home. She brazenly asserted that “if given that ‘option’, too many women would choose to take it”.

Feminism’s definition of ‘choice’, Angela, does not fit in with that of real humanity and the real instinctive wishes of many women.

Feminism is an enemy of the human race. And in terms of its radicalism, its fanaticism, the raw hatred that is its heartbeat and the very distance it chooses to place between itself and truth – feminism does indeed eclipse the extremes of both Communism and Nazism. We have yet to fully reap the seeds that are now being sown, that is why many people might still doubt such a statement. Throughout history mistakes have frequently only ever been fully acknowledged by the majority after a very painful lesson has been learned by the whole of society the hard way. Unfortunately that is all too often the human way.

But I maintain that not only will feminism be one day recognised as having been the most heinous crime against humanity ever visited upon our species – but I believe that it is possibly the worst such crime the human race can possibly ever know. And I mean that quite seriously.

I am a woman, mother, and grandmother (albeit a young grandmother-LOL). I study gentle, godly, feminine living. I am so thankful to see this site. I am living the Titus 2 and Proverbs 31 woman’s description. I encourage my daughters to live this way as well. I want to encourage you and your readers to keep up the good works! We CAN change society one person at a time.

Well young man, this is a notable and noble essay. Very well written, clearly well thought out. I am quite impressed. I also learned a few things I intend to pass on to my son’s and daughter’s. I suppose I already knew it, but you put it into neat concise wording, and that makes my life easier.
Praise God that there are still people out there who want to die to self, and become the least of these.

Mrs. Meg Logan

Thanks for your section addressing the ladies; I think guys get picked on a lot in the whole guy-girl-relationship thing for not doing their part and all, when really the blame is more spread out. I would love to pick your brain on the ‘Unique and Critical Roles’ section… Do you think it’s wrong for girls to be more excited about pursuing a career than starting a family?

~Annie

I was reading this post & thinking, yeah, chivalry is great, but you always expect it from older guys, like, 60 or something, so its kinda a shock when someone our age, like in their teens, does something gentleman like. Ive often thought how dorky the whole “stand when a woman comes into the room, open the door for her every time” thing was, but when I think about it, I would like my husband, when I get married, to have the qualities of a chivalrus man. Even though at our age it seems odd & funny, Ive found that some guys balance the chivalry-&-yet-not-a-dork thing quite well, & everyone loves them, especially the girls.
Now I am quite into a do it yourself, tough it out & kind of attitude, so when a guy opens a door for me I feel kind of, well, like they think I can’t do it myself? its odd.
But i do agree that guys do need to work on being more chivalrus & us, as girls, need to encorage that.
Great post!

I will have to say, the Lord certainly does enable one to have the years & experience to experience both sides of the coin, so-to-speak. Almost 18 years ago, I had a son “out of wedlock”. At that time, I had received my diplomas from two “all women’s” schools–the underlying philosophy of both of those schools was “whatever men can do, women can do better”. Needless to say, I was determined to bring up my son knowing that, yet also encouraged him to behave like a gentleman (opening doors, please & thank you, helping women out with packages, school books, etc). What a paradox! Once I was saved, I realized the necessity for ME (as in “I”, “ego”, “id”) to be squelched & for him, my growing son, to step up to being the chivalrous young man God had created him to be. Old habits die hard–I am now struggling with a soon-to-be man who is gifted with the grace of God to be a leader, yet, he is not the chivalrous gentleman that he would like to believe himself to be. He, too, much like his parents, struggles significantly with “self”.
He believes he is a gentleman as he conducts himself quite well when in the company of others (other than his family); but get him purely in the company of his closest neighbors (his siblings, & parents), and the “old man” comes out.
I will have to say, much of his behaviour has been “taught” to him by a self-sufficient mother (no wonder God instructs us to be pure until marriage–being a single parent certainly directs us to self-dependance instead of be God-dependant). But there comes a time when we need to make our own decisions about how we’re going to treat one another, and what we’re going to stand for–much like these two young gentlemen have done. I’m sure their parents have influenced much of their thinking and acting, but I’m also certain that their parents didn’t require they step out & make the proclaimation they’ve made.
Why is chivalry so hard to find today? It is because we continue to allow the “Ruler of this world” to deceive us into believing we are “someone” when we have yet to etch the surface of what God truly wants us to be.

I would like to point out that in the hot debate about who is ‘smarter’ men or women, that there are different kinds of ‘smart.’ It is my observation that as a whole, the young men I know have more tendency to science oriented fields. I believe I can say that they undersand these things more easily than most girls. On the other hand, girls sometimes have more common sense and caution.

The discussion about who is better seems to be turning into a discussion about who is more valuable.

If God is our ultimate standard, Peter Charnley, his standard of value for humans should be our standard. In his eyes, a prodigal daughter returned is as valuable as a prodigal son returned. They are valuable to God while they are dead in trespasses and sins, or feminism and misogyny, AND when they accept redemption. Our value is not determined how we benefit economy or God’s kingdom, but how much God loves us. Sure God has a law book according to which you might better than I, yet if this were the only standard, you and I would be as hell-bound as an God-hating feminist. We can accept this judgement as just, wallow in misery, wait our doom, curse others with the curse we bear, and leave in a nihilistic poof of vanity. Or we can accept our failure before God “to reacscend, / Self-rais’d, and repossess [our] native seat,” (e.i. get to heaven despite or because of rebellion to God) and then turn to God and accept that we have value, though Christ’s propitiatory love to be justified and counted perfect. My score should be nil, but it is perfect, because the head master’s son did the work with the head master’s bleasing.

I trust that in bringing up these truths before Peter Charnley on a Christian blog I am preaching to the choir. Our status in God’s eyes as lovely enough to die for does have relevence to chivalry. If God died for sinners, how can we take that and refuse to die for sinners as well? Chivalry is a set of guidlines on how guys can respectfully love the fairer sex. (Fairer sex, by the way, is a very accurate term; in a gender vs. gender competition, girls are prettier than guys any day.) Chivalry is a practice we can revive to say, in a small way, “Christ died for me, the jerk, and so I can do this for you even if you are a jerk too. (Din does actually know God loves jerks.) God loves you. Let me copy his kindness in this small way.”

Chivalry is built on custom and gains beauty from it like writing does from historical allusions. Now, just because something was tradition does not mean it was right. The Dani tribe in Indonesia had some interesting traditions:

The women were the bread winners.
The women proposed in marriage.
The men valued their pigs more than their wives. They were more important to society despite doing nothing.
The men just worried about their enemies and their hair.
Young people had parties to meet the opposite sex that often ended with just that.

These Dani people went through a healthy, mass conversion to Christianity. They met Christ through a Westen missionary, but he was careful to keep them from accepting Westen varieties of worldliness. After their conversion, the Dani had to decide which of their traditions were sinful and destructive, and which could be kept and improved. They kept the first two traditions and nixed the other three. Women continued to grow the food and propose, men started loving their wives and building infastructure and ministry, and kids waited until marriage. Their culture flourished as never before. They demonstrated that gender roles matter, but men are not universally built for certain jobs.

Chivalry is based on a man-as-the-breadwinner tradition. This is a system which has been ours and which does not need to be changed. If the Dani had convulsively adopted our system they would have got chaos. If we change to a women-as-breadwinner, we will likewise get chaos. It is painful and unnecessary to go through such a change. (I agree with Peter Charnley in that modern feminism produces worse than chaos because it is sin. It sets women to a higher inate value than men, not just to a different function.) Strong Biblical arguements can be made for our man-as-breadwinner system. Chivalry can be linked to our religion. But I think it is more of a custom for courtesy than a morally right way of doing things. It is a beautiful habit and a good application of our beliefs and I am encouraged that many others think it admirable.

A New Zealand “Hi!” to everyone!

First of all, thanks Brett for this article. I love it when guys are chivalrous. I’m not a weak girl, and I think there’s nothing wrong with accepting help from guys. It doesnt’ mean that we, as girls, are incapable. I experienced some gentlemanly behavour towards me from an American guy a while ago and I really did appreciate it even though I was kinda embarrased at first. I have to say that American guys tend to be more chivalrous than New Zealand guys. So I challenge all you Kiwi dudes out there, be a gentlemen! Chicks love it! 😛 (not that i’m saying that should be the primary reason for gentlmanly behaviour)

Secondly, a question to Peter Chranley, are you saying that I, as a girl, shouldn’t be allowed to reach my full potential academically? Correct me if I’m wrong on that, but to me it seemed like that’s what you were saying.

Thirdly, to Liz. Everyone needs Christ. It’s a fact, whether one believes it or not. One can choose to accept it and do something about it (receive Christ as your Saviour) or ignore it. It’s your choice.

Thats all I have to say. It’s Valentine’s Day here already and its 12:30 pm. I’ll just have to wait till tomorrow to see the results of the modesty survey. 🙂

Oh, one more thing, can anyone give me advice on how I can teach my 14yr old brother to be chivalrous? He thinks I’ve lost my mind! LOL

God Bless you everyone!
Shalita

I appreciate it when guys are gentlemen, too. My younger brother just started a blog, and he put a nifty little piece on it about being a gentleman. He didn’t tell me about it, he just posted it. Please have a read! It’s http://musingsofaliberboy.blogspot.com/2007/02/gentlemen.html.

Brett –

This is an interesting essay, but it fails to address one major issue. That is, the issue of encouraging selflessness in women. While men are being encouraged to “put the ladies first”, your article does nothing to help fight selfcentredness in women. Having obliging gentlemen servicing all their felt needs does not encourage girls to behave in a less selfish way. This brings me to my second point, the distinction between felt needs, and real needs. Christian love involves the serving of people’s real needs, not their felt needs. While we were sinners, we felt no need of a Saviour, but Christ, who knew our real need, saved us from ourselves. Also, surely all Christians, both men and women, should be more considerate of others needs than of their own. Sorry if this sounds negative, I actually agree that their is a lack of gentlemanly behaviour, but I was wondering if fighting selfishness was the best ground to build your argument on. Anyway, I really like you blog, so keep up the encouraging!

Yours in Christ

Bex

Thank you so much for this post. It is a very good reminder to us girls to accept guys help and kindness. I completely agree with you, Anna C.

our HOF church is still so small that we meet at home, and after shared meal the boys are supposed to fold the tables, pick them up, and put them away. One evening they were slacking, so us girls started to put the tables away, and I watched as my 12 year old sister carried a heavy table right by my 14 yr old male friend.”Nice going, K” I said to him, just teasing! “Where is the Chivilrous knight helping my sister w/ that table? Get a move on it!” He just stared at me. Later, when I was putting a folding chair away, he comes up, and says, jokingly,”OOOOO, can I CARRY that for you?” I knew that he was mocking me, so I said “no, it’s really all right.” but I think he felt bad, so maybe I should have let him take the chair. What do you think?

Skyfort-

Blocks traffic? Generaly one stands out of the way when doing so… Perhaps meeting a need is not the whole issure, lahtough a great part. Simply showing respect to women is just as important. If you open doors just out of obligation, then you are missing the point.

People who are requesting a post for ladies-

I would recamend the Ladieg Agianst Feminism website for this.
–
http://www.Ladiesaganstfeminism.com

Thanks for the article! I wish there were more guys that showed this kind of love for their sisters in Christ as well as more young ladies that acted like ladies instead of having the “I can do anything guys can do” mentality. To the guys, keep persevering in the role God has given you! To the ladies, just because you could do something, doesn’t mean you should. If a guy offers to help you carry something heavy, let him! This is helping you brother in Christ. Guys, don’t give up on us either! Many of the young ladies I know (and this goes for me sometimes too) are striving to attain Biblical femininity in a world that tells us that this is just being too girly, wimpy, or just plain ridiculous (among other things). A world that says we should be able to do everything you guys can do. God gave men and women different roles for a reason! Embrace the role your Heavenly Father has given you!!! Use it for His honor and glory!

I think this is a great challange. And for ladies who think that gentlemen no longer exist it is a good reminder for us to act correctly.

hmmm… I’ve always had high standards for guys. I’ve seen so many of my friends give in to the need of having a relationship only to get hurt because the guy thay picked cared more about themselves. Please do not misinterpret me. I’m not saying the guys were the only ones to blame, more often then not, my friends were. But I always thought that the purpose of a husband was to have someone constantly bringing you closer to God. Someone who was willing to give up little comforts for you. The quote by Dr. Albert Mohler was something I really needed to hear, and I’m going to encourage the guy leaders in our church to teach on this subject.

Brett – Thanks, I don’t think you truly know how much this means to not only me, but to the other people reading this. God has truly blessed you with leadership and it means a lot to see you using yur talents for Him.

For our youth group outing last Saturday night we went to the mall. As we went inside a couple of the guys held open the door. And they did as we wnet and when we came back out. Then to our pleasant surprise they did it again as we went in and out of McDonalds. My friends and I were all sure to say thanks and show that we appreciated it.

Dear Mr. Charnely,

I agree with your fundamental views on feminism, but I think that you should be gentler when debating with people like Liz. Calling people bigots and comparing them to Nazis and Communists probably won’t sway their views and will make them even angrier.

Additionally, Paul told Timothy: “Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lord’s servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.” Paul told us to live at peace with everyone, if possible.

In my opinion, chivalry is a way of showing respect to ladies and demonstrating a humble and serving attitude.

the french saying does not lead to the idea that a gentleman has responsibility to those weaker then him. the actual idea of courteousness comes from the ancient necessity to show respect to those of higher rank in society. the real ettiquette of society calls that men defer to women as they are of higher societal rank in the same way that the young should defer to the older. this is why men are introduced to women or youths to elders (it is then at the discretion of the woman or elder to accept the invitation), this is why you must always open the door for one who is older or female. you are serving them.
you do not open the door or carry their belongings because they are too weak to do so themselves, you do it because you are lower then them, you are their servant and that is how you show respect. that is the historical background of proper manners.

Thanks, Brett, for a wonderful speech/article. My Father is a splendid example of what a true gentleman acts like, without being artificial or over the top. I am always humbled by the way he will wait for me to go through a door first, open the car door for me, or serve me in some other way. It blesses me no end! The only down side of it is that so few young men show the same courtesies. But, the few I know that do, hold a great place of reverence in my mind. May God bless all you young men out there as you seek to serve and bless your sisters, mothers, sisters in Christ, and the women in the world, despite the persecution you may undergo. I’m certain that your efforts do not go unnoticed nor unappreciated. Also, Brett, I REALLY agree with your Father’s statement that the way you treat your sisters or mother now is the same way you will eventually treat your wife. I have seen that to be too true in my own observations! Us ladies DO notice…*smile* God bless you richly, Brett.

Hi, I read this and agree with everything it says. I know a few gentelmanly men, but when they do carry my things for me, I always fell slightly embarrassed. I don’t really know why. I suppose it could be because I feel I am not contributing and should be trying to help – even if they aren’t struggaling. Is this wrong? Should I ignore this feeling and let them help me anyway?

Being one of about three other men commenting on this particular topic, I’d like to say that I find the idea of “gentleman” to be one worth striving for, a quite honourable and prestigious social standee, the epitome of male integrity and character. A gentleman is not dead, but all too rare. I accept this great cause for a better male persona in a “not-so-much-better” culture where I look a fool for being mannered, thoughtful, and full of compassion and will, in longing to meet the perfect demands of a loving Father in Heaven.

Good work! 🙂

Just as another guy I’d like to say that I agree %100 with what you’ve said Brett. Guys and gals in Christ – stay strong!

I totally agree that chivalry is dying (sad to say even in churches), but it’s partially the girl fault, i agree that we are not as appreciative when guys do things for us. I grew up being treated by guys with respect and the chivalry that is now rare and i really miss it. AWESOME blog Brett thanks….

Dear Elisabeth, It was kind of you to offer your friend your coat; however, it was right of him to politely refuse the coat because God commands men to “give honor unto the weaker vessel.” It would be dishonoring to his manhood if he had accepted your offer; it is pleasing in God’s sight that you respected him and his wishes. It would be unchivalrous of him to accept because chivalry is self-sacrificial.
As sisters in Christ, we should always seek to treat men and boys in a way that will build them up, with respect. When we act like true, godly ladies, it encourages them to act like men! Women have a great influence on men, so let us use that influence for God’s glory, helping them, especially our brothers in Christ, to be chivalrous and to act like real men! 🙂 Sincerely, Charlotte

I think that acting like a gentleman is just what modern day society needs. Because I think the reason for all the break ups and devoice issues is because people just don’t show that they care for each other anymore

As a single girl on a campus, I often have the experience of entering the building behind a couple and watching as the guy holds the door open for the girl…. Then he lets the door slam in my face.

Sometimes, you see, chivalrous acts come from selfish ambitions as well. The guy opens the door for the girl he wants to impress, but not for anyone else. It’s not about protecting the weaker vessel or anything like that for him. It’s about getting ahead with a pretty girl.

As far as I am concerned, no guy is getting my approval unless he opens the door for me, my friends, and every girl between him and the next male.

Whoa! You’ve really hit a sore spot for me. I have a really, really hard time letting my guy friends open doors for me, ect. I always feel like they’re mocking me or think they’re stronger than me. But I’ll try really, really hard now to say thanks and accept it. Thanks for the look into your lives, gentlemen. Keep it up.

I am so glad that you have had the courage to write this blog. I feel like in today’s society we have so few gentleman, and that is something I pray will change. What you said about how men treat their mothers and sisters is how they will one day treat their future wives is a very important point. My mom used to always tell me before i date anyone i should first find out how they treat their mom and sisters because that is how one day they will treat me. I have found this to be true from personal experience, from a guy i once dated. After we were dating he admitted to me that he struggled with respecting and listening to his mother, which I also found true with the way he treated me. I think its important that you brought up the fact that we are not going to change our self seeking desires once we get married, although we would all like to think that it just wont happen. We are going to have to practice putting others first before we get married and break the habit now.

That was powerful. I live in Marble Community Fellowship, a small town of rednecks radical for Christ way up in the corner of eastern Washington. What Brett just described is the norm up here and ladies are treated with the utmost respect. If you even look at a girl cross eyed you might end up that way for the rest of your life. This is so cool that i live in a community upholding chivalry and courtship because everyone knows every one and i have no surface level relationships here. I am raised in a fairly protected environment so when we drive (yes we have cars) to a larger town i am horrified and discusted by the general disrespect of girls and elders. You are speaking a message that needs to be heard, keep it up!

I was very impressed with this post…it was great. I have always been a more suck-it-up, be a man, sort of girl and whenever i would read old classics (like I’m reading Dracula right now) and the men would always “spare” the wonem because they might not be able to take it, I would get a little annoyed at them, thinking “What? just because she is a woman she can’t handle killing a vampire?” but now, I see the logic. They are not trying to call her weak or incapable, they simply will do anything to keep the woman from unneccessary pain. This post really helped me because I used to think guys my age who would act chivalrous were “nerds” or “dorks” but now that I think about it, these really are characteristics that I really want in my future husband. Thank you for the great post!

Thank you so much for writing this Brett! I am so happy that Christian guys can read it and realise that if they don’t have chivalry already, they need it! Girls find it VERY attractive and sweet in guys, and it endears us very much to your character.

There is this one guy at my church who always jumps up when we are dismissed to youth discussion, to hold the door open for everyone who walks through. It’s so sweet!

Keep being chivalrous, Christian guys out there!

Hey, I think this is a subject not often talked about because where I go to school (just for band, because I am homeschooled) Chivalry is an almost forgotten word. I use to have some friends in the school system, but when I was betrayed me more then once when I ask a girl to swear on her honor and she broke it, that lead to my actual hating of the modern world. (Only a few things in the world have brought me to actually hate it or them.) On one occassion I was told that Honor was dead, and that I should forget it, but my emotions on the subject of honor are final, Chivalry is not dead, so long as I or (in the future) my heirs live.
But one the flip side of the coin, I will be honest I am not the most honoable man in the world. I will take a bullet or a knife for the right girl, but I have only found a few people in the world worthy of me dying for them. They are not better or worse then I, but I will not give up my life so that a mean teenage girl can go on harassing good people. So, I do not think chivalry and honor are dead, but we can no longer handle it in he same way. Just something to think about.
Oh and please e-mail me I really want to know what people think.

Well even some boys hide how they reat their family from their girl friend, i don’t personally I have tried lying in a relationship it did not work out (about something else), but I know a couple of guys that mistreat their family. And really you got to wonder if they have considered that they could be in a monastary or in a foster home with horrible parents if not for their mother’s love. As for sisters It could go either way, I know some good and some bad.
Oh and before I go, not every kill is a direct action some kill through a mean comment or even a joke. (Making people want to commit suicide, if you couldn’t guess.)

~David

P.S. Sir Knightheart, I like you idealism, but somepeople have been treated badly enough they expect that when they snap at someone they will get snapped at and have come to live with being mistreated and then the goldern rule no longer shines the way it once did. But yes, honorable men should fight to the death to fight for the weak (and honorable/ innocent) that can not defend themselves.

I totally agree!! And guys aren’t the only ones who forgrt either! I think of myself as a really independant girl, and a lot of times it can be really hard to ask for someone to open a door, or something like that, but at the same time, I love it when someone actully does open the door!

To be honest, this idea is completely foreign to me, and it shouldn’t be. Other than my brother, dad, and a few other guy friends, the men around me do not practice chivalry. Therefore, this article was encouraging to me. I even go to a Bible college, and unless a man there has romantic intentions, normally he will not be chivalrous to the women surrounding him. My friends and I have been left to fend for, and protect ourselves. It is wonderful to realize that there are men out there who are striving to be chivalrous to their sisters in Christ. What an encouragement!

I’m a senior in high school and this is so true. I know some girls are too proud to accept it, but I think deep down we all want that kind of love and consideration from the male gender. It feels so natural when a girl can have a guy offer to do something for her and for her to accept. Being “chivalrous” dates so far back; and I feel that perhaps this is an inborn thing that God has placed inside of our souls to recognize and feel. It’s natural.
More guys need to see this and realize it isn’t wimpy, and they aren’t “whipped” for being such a gentleman and considerate of a woman’s needs. I know that my boyfriend of almost 3 years now has acted in this manner, and has been teased over the years for it being called “whipped”. But what is interesting, is that I’m pretty sure none of these guys have even had a girlfriend or have had a good relationship for an extended amount of time. Not that that is the main goal while being in high school, but I think it says a little something.
God has truly blessed me with the gift of this very special relationship and his character. God can do anything, even in high school.
SO! I encourage all of the men folk out there to strongly consider this way of living your life. Be a blessing to all around you, let God’s light shine through you; it could open doors to conversations that could even lead to salvation… 🙂

Wow! I have not been on this blog in forever, but I really needed to read this today! I am so guilty of saying, “I can do it” when guys offer to help, but I know that I need to let them. I am blessed to know some real gentlemen, and this post really encouraged me to do all that I can to help them be masculine, chivalrous, and godly. Thanks!

Great article. But I must say one thing. I think it woulda been better if you called it “When Galahad comes riding.” I know Launcelot is more well known but for those of us who have read “Morte d’ Arthur” Launcelot is conducive to very immoral.

To all the chivalrous guys: Thank you so much!!

(continued)

I need to get over the idea that a guy is “dissing” me or down playing my abilities just because he’s being polite. I’m that one at fault, and I am the one who needs to get into my God-ordained possition of SUPPORTER, NOT LEADER. (at least leader of men)

However, I do dissagree with one of the previous comments that:

“Not only are men, on avarage, physically stronger than women – but the spectrum of male intellect is broader than female. The most creative, inventive and powerful human minds are male”

That is totally incorrect!!

YES.- Grown men are physically stronger than grown woman.
NO. – the spectrum of male intellect is not nessecarily broader than that of females. (despite the ever-present message of blonde joke 🙂 )
and
NO.- the most creative, inventive, adn powerful human minds are not all male!! That statement contradicts biblical teachings, and personally, I belive that abuses the God-ordained role and mindset of men.

In concusion, GREAT ARTICLE!

That’s an interesting article. It is good for girls to be able to let guys do those chivalrous things. Although, I do have a hard time with that myself. I feel that I can do things myself, people don’t need to do it for me. Especially guys, sometimes it feels weird. I know that it shouldn’t but it does. I’m more of an independent type of person so maybe that’s why. I’m going to work on it. Thanks for the article. I’m going to read the rest of the series.

Thanks Guys. CHIVALRY IS NOT DEAD. Guys. We need to continue (or start being) the knights in shining armor who come in and slay the dragon, whether it is opening a door, lifting, doing the dirty job, or defending a young lady’s honor when she is spoken light of. Draw your swords and mount up. We have a job to do. Let’s roll!

Thanks so much for this post! I haven’t read parts 2, 3, 4, or 5 yet but as soon as I submit this reply I’ll zip over to those pages.

It is amazing (as well as heartbreaking) to sit down in a fast food restaurant, in view of the door, and watch its activity. During the course of my meal I’ll count how may ‘gentlemen’ vs. ‘non-gentlemen’ walked through the door. I’m sorry to report there are drastically fewer of the former than the later. So many (of both genders) are so encompassed in their self-centeredness.

I pray that all Rebelutionarys will read this article and act accordingly. I commend all the young men out there who are trying to become the gentlemen that God wants them to be. Not all women you try to help will be receptive and most will openly berate you but deep down inside your action rouses a forgotten memory of what heroism and chivalry once were. She may not thank you this time or even the next but you have reminded her of what she aught to be embracing.

Hmm.. I don’t know about all the girlies, but I DEFINITELY love getting treated like a lady, it makes me feel so special and makes me put in more effort to conduct myself the way a lady should. Guys, PLEASE don’t be discouraged by the girls out there who want to be “independent” and get offended when you show chivalry. Look our for us girls who are searching for men like you. Trust me, there are a lot of us out here. TAKE HEART FELLOW KNIGHTS IN SHINING ARMORS! Your fair maidens await! (Oh what would I give to live in those medieval times with the “take this, sir, as a token of my gratitude” as she extended her lace handkerchief..)

I always appreciate it when the guys open doors, carry things, offer a seat, carry my books, ect. But I’m curious, if it would be a hassle to trade spots or switch arm loads of books, is it okay to just say I got it? That’s the only time I would say that, because I truly do appreciate my brothers in Christ being gentlemen, but is it okay? I’m a little confused on that. But all you guys who are striving to be gentlemen, thank you so much!! We really do appreciate it, even if we don’t thank you. So I thank you now for all you do. THANK YOU GUYS!!!

Oh, my…I’ve refused a gentleman’s help more then once…mainly because I was shy and didn’t want to inconvenience him. Gotta work on that.
Thanks, Brett!!!!

Wow, great article! Thanks!

this is just being hypicritecal, you have writen a book againgst staryotyps of teanagers yet you think men and women should change to fit gender roles.

sorry if i sounded rude what i ment was that kindness should be given to all people man or woman,
i completly agrey with what you are talking about (putting your frends above your self) and oftin hold the door open for freands and strangers. What i ment was this artical is only focised on men doing things for women and women telling men to help them with things they can do themselves, i think kindness should incloud every body, man or woman.

I loved this article. I know we girls can be a little prideful about accepting gentlemanly help, but believe me, when you guys do offer to help us we are grateful for it. It definitely makes us feel worth somebody’s time and effort.

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This past weekend I had a guy open the door for me when I was hanging out with his family. It really meant alot to me. And then he walked my sister and I to our door when we got home. I was so amazed. This blog came to mind. He just earned so much more of my respect with this simple gesture. I had been thinking a few days before this happened that I would love for more guys to do that, and that my future boyfriend/husband [[whoever that may be]] would definitely have to do that. And then this happened. I’m not saying that I’m gonna marry this kid, but it was just nice to know he put such importance on manners and chivalry.

THANKS TO GENTLEMEN!
Hi, I just wanted to say that I really appreciate it when guys act like gentlemen- and are gentlemen! I feel so honoured and valued when a man- young or old, holds open the door for me, helps me with bags, or lets me walk in front of him. It is a rare occurrence, but when a man does show me respect in that way he defintiely gains my respect and admiration! Anyway, just wanted to say that it definitely has the power to make a BIG difference when girls are so used to being treated like objects. Thanks! 🙂

Hey. I just want to thank all of the guys who act like gentle men. Although some girls will push you away because they feel it’s demeaning, I promise that there are girls out there that really appriciate the extra effort. It makes them feel like guys respect them, as people, not as superficial objects that society veiws them as. God bless.
-Brittany

This series is wonderful- and the comments are disappointing. I don’t see why these things need to become an argument. Yelling at people never gets them to change their mind, in my experience.

Anyway, this reminded me of a story that broke my heart a few years ago. My youth group had just been at a weekend retreat out of town, and on the last day all of us girls had to carry out luggage all the way across campus to the bus, while the boys’ cabins were near the front right by the parking lot. Obviously the boys finished before we were even done packing (funny how we can get everything to fit when we’re first packing, but then it’s almost impossible to put it all back, huh?), so they decided to come back and help carry our things for us. I was very proud of them, as we didn’t ask them to or anything, they just noticed that we were struggling, and offered to help. Now, we ladies were still carrying things, not just sitting idle by and watching, we just let the guys help us out with the heavy stuff. They seemed genuinely happy to do it for us, and we thanked them for it over and over. When our youth director saw us, she got VERY angry at the girls for “forcing the guys to do our work and taking advantage of them like that.” It just made me so sad that she of all people didn’t understand what was going on.

I think this series is one everybody needs to read. Thank you so much.

I know this post is pretty old, but I do want to say that it makes such an impression on me when a guy lets me go first, or opens the door for me. I was so pleased when my sister’s fiance opened the car door for me. I usually don’t wait for a guy to open the door for me because I feel like I’m being stuck-up. But guys who are gentlemanly definitely make an impression on me.

Thanks to the gentle men!!! I think it’s really cute and sweet to see guys acting with chivalry. Even the little things I see at school like my friend Matt puting all the girls’ at his table calculatort away in algebra, or throwing away his girlfriend’s tray at lunch. I also think it’s really sweet when guys offer girls their jackets!!! Don’t be discouraged if a girl doesn’t accept the jacket, as it can feel wierd for the girl sometimes. Continue being gentlemen, and you’ll find yourself a good girl 🙂

God Bless
-Britt

I’m lucky enough to go to a christian school with lots of gentlemen around!! It’s definitely something that all the girls appreciate! It’s definitely not demeaning, it shows that guys care about us, but then again, I think that as ladies we should try and also be selfless, not be opening doors maybe, but we can also find ways to put other peoples needs before our own such as donating money to charity and making friends with people who are feeling lonely or unwanted.

Maybe it is just where I am from in the South, but opening doors and helping people is just something that is taught as basic manners. If there is a person (guy or girl) walking behind me, I’m not going to let the door slam in their face, I’ll hold it for them. And if a person (yet again, guy or girl) seems like they need some help, I’ll ask. Just because I’m a girl doesn’t mean that is an excuse to be rude and either slam the door in the face of the person behind me or stop and block traffic till I tell some guy to help me out. It doesn’t matter what gender you are, everyone should be polite and help each other out. Everyone, especially Christians, should be putting their needs and comforts before others.

As for the people who want to go live in the 1800’s where everyone was so polite and nice, count me out. I’d be a slave and none of those Southern “gentlemen” would be helping me or holding the door for me. Being treated with respect was something saved for rich white women. Even in the 40’s and 50’s, a time that people like to treat like a golden era, my grandma was treated horrible by white “gentlemen”.

Chivalry today is not dead. It only comes in other forms. The concept of chivalry is the gentleman’s service to a woman.

Everywhere I go guys tend to open doors for me, sometimes running to get to the door ahead of me so they can open it. I don’t usually mind, but I don’t see it as a sign of service and respect either. You’re totally right about it not being true chivalry if you’re only like that with certain girls. I’ve actually been out shopping with a friend and some guy opened the door for me but let it slam in my friend’s face! How much more rude can someone get than that? If guys are only like that with certain girls, it’s more like flirting than an act of service. I always thought true chivalry was dead, so I really liked this article. It gives me hope.

Brett and Harris,

Do you think the book “Wild At Heart” aptly expresses what you are saying, too? that men are made to be passionate, bold & heroic (just like Jesus Christ who died for us) and women to be courageous but gentle and beautiful (and I don’t mean outwardly beautiful only) ?

I actually do believe that. But some obstacles..: first, people tend to assume I’m the feminist sort when I really am not at all. I LOVE it when men are gentlemen and women are the fairer sex and I really desire to be “woman”.

But I don’t find many brothers from my Church who know how to treat sisters very well. I have non-church visitors (non-believers and also Christian visitors who are not in church regularly) who treat me with chivalry more than brothers in the Church, even cell group leaders and so on…. and these brothers are supposed to be spiritual people…. yet they do things like stride ahead with big steps with each other while leaving the sister-in-Christ in the dust behind them trying to catch up in her heels (remember ladies wear ladies shoes and walk with smaller strides?) … while the non-believer gives me a pitying look and stays behind to walk with me….

And I have Christian guys who don’t go to Church offering to send me home late at night while those who attend Church regularly ignore the obvious.

& these non-Church guys are not doing it to show-off. They are attached with their own girlfriends already (thankfully, or I may be tempted to fall. due to lack of quality guys in church?)

Frankly, a bit disappointed.

I think it could be due to some of these “Church” guys having the wrong idea that to pay a little little bit more attention to their sisters-in-Christ would be unspiritual or lead to temptation.

Or maybe they are just afraid of what OTHER people would think (that they are interested in this girl).

Many times I catch some of these guys in church looking at me or sometimes they say hi or make very short conversation… then this goes on.. and on… for weeks.. months… many months… they behave like adolescents having crush but think they are too “spiritual” to make any other move such as , just ask me out! Church guys move too slowly. Do you agree? And when I finally went out with someone, a Christian who doesn’t go to church regularly, suddenly two of these Church brothers pop up and ask me if my friend is my boyfriend.

I almost said, what to do, you guys never chase, I will not chase a guy, I only go out with guys who are bold enough to ask me out. But I laughed and just said honestly that he’s not. But it beats me why these church guys move so sloowly and then only make a weak bid when they see another guy pop up.

I think guys in our Church need to rise up and be manly. They cannot be passive and wimpy , all the while thinking they are being “spiritual” by ignoring girls…. How are they going to compete with men in the world like this? They are called to be salt and light, but the men of the world are beating them hands-down in this. Why would a non-believer want to convert when he sees that hey, this is how brothers in the church behave?

An analogy is if all girls / women in the church are unattractive, dowdy and look ugly because we think all we need is to be “spiritual” or LOOK spiritual. We are called to represent the Best. And we do represent the Best – Jesus Christ, our God. so men and women, should be the men and women GOD calls us to be — men to be manly, and woman to be womanly.

How do you suggest I communicate this to more guys in my church without sounding like I’m complaining? I really don’t want to “demand” it or sound demanding. & in our Asian society, I will sound even more demanding… so far I only pray :p or tell one or two trusted brothers (they are already married) and ask them to spread the word to more brothers.

Oh , and another question, a guy I know seems to hint that he may want to help, e.g. he asks “do you stay near?” . I think he was trying to see if I would be receptive to him sending me back late at night (I know he does not have an ulterior motive, he’s a nice guy).. BUT (maybe you can teach me how to respond..) because he did not OFFER outright to send me back, I wasn’t 100% sure and I really wanted to be kind & didn’t want to inconvenience him IF he wasn’t actually asking me pointblank to help me… (though I would have gladly accepted it if he asked me directly)….. so I said “er, yes, near enough.” Other times, similar conversations happened. How, can you teach me what to say next time to hint to him that I really would love it if he just OFFERS instead of asking me questions that make me guess whether his intention is to help me (though I’m 70% sure).

Men in the Church, who represent God’s best, should be manly. and women should be womanly. It’s sad when I see my non-believer friends or those who are Christian but don’t attend church regularly, better than my brothers in the Church in this way… e.g. the brothers in the Church stride on ahead without thinking of their sister-in-Christ trying to catch up behind in ladies shoes while the non-Church guy scratches his head, gives me a pitying look and stays to wait for me or gets me a drink (and he’s not doing it with an ulterior motive).

Man should rise up and be manly, protect women, provide for women. but you are right that women should learn not to read marriage proposals into the simplest action of service given by the brothers.

However I think too many men in the Church have the wrong idea it’s manly to ignore their pretty sisters-in-Christ , that somehow it proves they are more spiritual or something…. Or are they just afraid of what other men will say? It is SO sad these brothers-in-Christ cannot be natural in taking the initiative to strike up a natural conversation in full view of others in the church, without fearing that people will say he’s “interested” in that sister. (but so what if he is? nothing wrong with being interested).

Or is it just men in my church? They are good in many ways but in this, they fail. While the pretty sisters-in-Christ go about feeling unloved (except by God, though of course this trains me to depend on God’s love more) but it is really quite sad.

How can we sisters make this known to brothers, that we would really really appreciate more initiative and boldness in the men? not passivity. Goodness, some of these brothers-in-Christ post on their Facebook that they wish for a relationship but in real life I see them only praying for it and doing nothing else. Do they think they just pray and the woman will fall into their lap? or do they have the fat hope the woman is going to chase them? while the woman is sitting pretty, waiting for HIM to chase her (or at least, I am). and I’ve been told my qualities are not bad…. but it is so rare to find a bold brother who has the initiative to take steps forward with me that I actually take notice of those who do and I only consider as potential husband those who do. (but of course I still treat the rest as my brothers in Christ! and brothers they will be, nothing else if they don’t show more initiative and less passivity).

This is ridiculous. This is simply, in my opinion, a precursor to gender roles and inequality. As a girl interested in the sciences, it seems that I have to virtually face prejudice. Not prejudice from boys, but from girls conditioned to scream during frog dissections and to prefer subjects like art. And it is demaning to women! Think about it. Do you open doors for men? Does this not imply some sort of weakness?

HAHA SANDRA! that was a funny post.

brett and alex: i have only been posting for a couple of days now, but what i have read, has been a real blessing! thanks allot!

To Sandra…–That is somthing one dosen’t see often! U r lucky to have wonderful bros.–
I have always been a gentleman but this arlicle gave me a whole new perspective on the way I treat my sisters… I mean, America needs more successful marriages. I believe the way to accomplish this is gentlemanly behavior. I also believe that girls who accept this ‘gentlemanly’ behavior are far more attractive! If u were to inconvenience yourself for somebody and they take it like ur saying, “ur weak and you lack the brains to carry bags, boxes, and other things, I’ll take it from here B).” and your just trying to b nice, it’s really hard to b a gentleman. I know that we as gentlemen must b patient with women that dont understand y we do what we do, and take it the wrong way. Hang in there fellow knights! Lol

I am enjoying your writing style in this article. You’ve made it engaging, unique and totally impressive. You have some great views on this subject. Thank you for sharing this.

Interesting story. I think that French men are the real gentlemen http://www.cigs4girls.com/

I’ve said that least 1205520 times. The problem this like that is they are just too compilcated for the average bird, if you know what I mean

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Although this article is five years old I couldn’t resist to comment having read other people’s post. I agree with this post and believe it was well presented. You guys are seem like very smart young men who understand better than some even lot older than yourselves what it means to be a honorable gentlemen including some of those who commented. Now I have to express my views on certain issues that was discussed among, the commentors. First, regarding this feminism debate and the so called different roles. First, I’m neither a feminist nor an anti-feminist patriarch. I believe men and women are equal value, under god under the law yet different. I’m also see both sides of the argument regarding feminism in which I recognize that it had both positive and negative affects on society. On the positive it the origins of feminism(not the 1970s bra-burning radicals) was about giving women equal status regarding political, economical, social and basic civil rights to women in times were they denied this and treated like second-class citizens. First wave feminism was about basic rights to vote, own her own property, and other political areas, and second wave in the 1960s was equality in careers, salaries, education, healthcare, politics, more programs for battered women, and breaking own extreme gender stereotypes that were limiting to both sexes. These were noble causes. However the extreme radical feminism that took over the second wave took things too far by distorting it causing confusing among the sexes, women rejected chivalry as being sexist and demeaning, being ladylike as being restrictive, trying to dissolve differences between the sexes except for basic biological function blurring gender lines. Then the sexual liberation and post hippy society furthered the damages, encouraging free love casual flings, and attempting to obsolete all gender roles altogether. This is were things went wrong. The best way to correct the mistakes of the post feminist society is by neither trying to completely go back to a nostalgia period in time nor abandoning all the traditional cultural norms, customs and morals but rather have a balance of both. I’m all for increasing chivalry for the modern times as well as gentlemen and ladies on modern standards but not holding on to very restrictive stereotypes of what a man or woman should be. I mean today a man or a woman can have any profession, any hobby, skills, he/she choose. A woman can drive a pickup truck work, play sports, work in a male dominated field and still be a woman or even a lady. A man can cook, bake, do laundry, take up dancing and work in a female dominated field and still be a man and a gentleman. As for chivalry itself, the origins started back during the medieval era as code for the knights regarding defending and protecting the weak and defenseless including the poor and respect for women as the fairer sex. Today it’s been slightly updated for courtly love(opening door for lady). I believe some values of the of the earlier codes of chivalry should also be apply today being modernized for the times, as many have said men are still physically the stronger sex and I believe they are built to be natural protectors especially of those physically weaker than themselves. This doesn’t make women inferior but the bible does refer to us the weaker vessel yet join heirs in new life meaning were are still equal in worth and co-partners with men in marriage. Thanks again for this article.

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How do you respond when you give your brothers the little hints and they just say, flat out “no”?